Bl, pml & sl

csparks13

Bought an X
Location
Katy, Tx
I have my BL and shackles for my PML waiting to get installed. I’ve been reading about doing a 3†SL as well. I know most people do these at different times. I’m thinking I may tackle it at one time. I’m thinking I want to go with the AC 3†over the Calmini due to it being cheaper and also I like the shocks in the AC kit. I’d like to know what you all think as well. I’m new to all of this so I trust this site over my thoughts.


In what order should I go? I would assume do the BL first then the SL then crank the T-bars last? I’m still a little confused on cranking the T-bars. If I do an SL do I still need to crank them?

AC 3†SL
https://www.4x4parts.com/nissan/xterra-deluxe-suspension-package-with-bilstein-shocks-p-1957.html

Calmini 3†SL
[FONT=&quot]http://www.calmini.com/detail.php?b=1&m=1&t=1&p=426&n=[/FONT]
 

Roadwarrior

Titan Swapped / SAS'd
Founding Member
Why not piece together the swap and save money? I would say that parting out a kit would be as simple as ordering the kit and you can get exactly what you want (at the same time of getting what you need)

Granted the kits will have everything you need, but in some cases the kits have wasted pieces (I know the BL kit was overpriced and had some things in it that weren't ever used).
 

Lewers

Test Drive
Location
United States
It's been a while since I installed a IFS suspension lift but as Roadwarrior mentioned, why don't you just piece it together to save some money. Since you already have the BL and rear shackles waiting, you can just add a couple other pieces. The following are just suggestions:

Front Suspension:

Calmini UCAs: http://www.calmini.com/detail.php?b=1&m=1&t=2&p=433&n= $389.95
Front Bilstein 3" Shocks: https://www.4x4parts.com/nissan/xterra-5100-series-bilstein-front-shock-p-6792.html $78 (x2)
If you aren't running an aftermarket front bumper/winch/etc., the stock torsion bars will still work great. You might have to reindex them possibly...

Rear Suspension:
Use of your existing shackles...
Calmini AAL: http://www.calmini.com/detail.php?b=1&m=1&t=2&p=437&n= $179.95
Rear Bilstein 3" Shocks: https://www.4x4parts.com/nissan/xterra-5100-series-bilstein-rear-shock-p-6749.html $78 (x2)

I ran this setup on my previous X for years and it performed great. Piecing it together doesn't include swaybar extensions but I removed my rear and the front fits the same. Also, don't forget that an upgrade to steering is also a good idea on the first gens when you lift and increase tire size. There are complete steering systems or you can just start with upgraded tie rod extensions and an idler arm brace.

Your last question, yes you will still have to crank the torsion bars to achieve 3" of lift, well any lift at all for that matter...
 

robcarync

Sliders
Location
Raleigh, NC
No matter what kind of lift you have on the front end, it is done by the torsion bars. The upper control arms simply provide a little more room to lift, and a little better alignment afterwards.

Note that the shackles for the PML IS a suspension lift...it is just a little lower and cheaper than going with a kit and shocks and leaf springs, etc. If you get a 3" kit, you will not need the PML shackles, as the added leaf springs will replace them (assuming 4x4parts.com lift kits). Using the AAL and PML shackles together will give you ~4.5" of lift in the rear

I also agree with piecing it together. Personally, I would do the 2" body lift, and the PML and leave it at that. That is just my opinion...you can only lift so much with the front suspension (even with UCAs...I have them from 4x4parts.com) before the CV axles start to bind up and your tie rods and ends are at some extreme angles.

Then you can start piecing together some more items...long travel shocks (I went with Bilstein) front and rear, etc.

For the record, my set up is:

2 1/8" inch adjustable shackles from 4x4parts.com (I use them on the highest setting...I chose them not for adjustability but for them being 2+" instead of 1.5" with the PML lift shackle)

Upper control arms from 4x4parts.com...I did not get a full 3 inches from the UCAs...I still have a large bump stop gap, but had trouble with alignment and breaking steering components....So 2 1/8" lift in the rear...about 2.75" in the front...My front end is still about 1/2" lower in the front.

2" body lift that I pieced together individually

3" Bilstein HD shocks

My lift situation works great for me. It took a lot of fine tuning the front end...those torsion bars can be confusing.
 

Prime

Shut up Baby, I know it!
Admin
Location
Denver Adjacent
If you get a 3" kit, you will not need the PML shackles, as the added leaf springs will replace them (assuming 4x4parts.com lift kits). Using the AAL and PML shackles together will give you ~4.5" of lift in the rear

I'm going to throw some clarification on this.

For the rear, if you use the Calmini AAL you still need lift shackles for the rear. It is possible to get the full 3 inches out of only doing springs but the longer shackles help add articulation to the rear by increasing the swing radius of the spring pack.

I installed the Calmini AAL instead of shackles when I did my PML. the reason for this is that I wanted the extra load capacity that adding leafs provides. When I went to the full 3" lift I added the AC lift shackles in the rear and installed Calmini UCAs up front. As well as the SwayAway torsion bars that AC sells.

Also, in reference to torsion bars, if you get ones that have a higher spring rate, you have to change the single that you start the adjusters at. Reindexing the stock bars calls for a starting adjuster angle of 40°, however with the SwayAway bars I ended up with a 20° starting angle and by the time I had the adjusters perfectly flush with the bottom of the crossmember I was sitting get exactly 1.5" higher than with the PML.
 

robcarync

Sliders
Location
Raleigh, NC
I'm going to throw some clarification on this.

For the rear, if you use the Calmini AAL you still need lift shackles for the rear. It is possible to get the full 3 inches out of only doing springs but the longer shackles help add articulation to the rear by increasing the swing radius of the spring pack.

I installed the Calmini AAL instead of shackles when I did my PML. the reason for this is that I wanted the extra load capacity that adding leafs provides. When I went to the full 3" lift I added the AC lift shackles in the rear and installed Calmini UCAs up front. As well as the SwayAway torsion bars that AC sells.

Also, in reference to torsion bars, if you get ones that have a higher spring rate, you have to change the single that you start the adjusters at. Reindexing the stock bars calls for a starting adjuster angle of 40°, however with the SwayAway bars I ended up with a 20° starting angle and by the time I had the adjusters perfectly flush with the bottom of the crossmember I was sitting get exactly 1.5" higher than with the PML.

Agreed.

Lifting the rear, you have 2 generic options. Use strong leaf springs to make the rear sit higher, or use longer shackles to push the rear end up. Adding leaf springs increases load capacity (IE: towing boats, loaded down with lots of cargo), but will reduce flex and make the ride a little more harsh. You can also buy leaf springs as a single leaf (very stiff, worst flex), or a leaf pack (multiple leaves, flexes better) Using longer shackles increases flex, but doesn't help load capacity.

You can lift the rear end using both an AAL and shackles, but make sure you get a combination that will match your front lift! I believe the Calimini AAL is a single leaf that will lift you 1.5". You can pair that with the PML shackles for a total of 3 inches. If you get a 3 inch AAL and use that with PML (1.5") shackles, you will end up sitting VERY high (+4.5") in the rear, even if you add 3" to the front.

Moral of the story...you have options. Only you can decide what is best for you and what you want to accomplish. It depends on:

If you need lots of flex off roading
if you need extra load capacity for towing
If you are OK with a nose down rake, or like a more level look
If you are OK with a stiffer ride with adding leaf springs
If you have the money for all of these parts at one time

etc...
 

Prime

Shut up Baby, I know it!
Admin
Location
Denver Adjacent
I believe the Calimini AAL is a single leaf that will lift you 1.5".

The Calmini AAL is two leafs. One for the very bottom and one that goes between the two factory leafs. If you have the factory towing package then you have three leafs in the rear already and the longer leaf would go in length order in the middle of that pack.
 

csparks13

Bought an X
Location
Katy, Tx
Ive been trying to mole through all the responses for the last couple days. The reason I started thinking about doing the SL also was to upgrade the front end parts. The way I understand it is, once you crank the T-bars your front end parts will wear out faster. If this is the case are there certain parts i can replace now to eliminate future problems? Im fine with running just the BL and PML. It seems like I need to order a few more parts. As it stands I have the AC BL kit and I have the PML shackle. Sounds like I need to beef the steering up a bit and get new shocks as well. Any suggestions on what else I need? Ill def go with the Bilstein shocks. My X will be mainly used as a DD. We use it at the deer lease but the terrain isn't extreme as what most use their X for. I don't pull anything with it so no need to beef the rear up. I appreciate all the help.
 

Kirk_R

First Fill-Up (of many)
Location
Keller TX
I dig my 3" SL (Calmini). And I only did it because my UCA and ball joints were shot. So it was worth the extra cash to do it at the same time. I replaced my Centerlink and I also added the Calmini Idler Arm Brace (this should be a factory installed item).. I off road mine pretty hard and so far my steering components have help up. Mine is a DD as we'll.

I hope that helps make the decision. Do what's right for you!
 

robcarync

Sliders
Location
Raleigh, NC
I will give you my thoughts based on my experience:

Front end parts wear out faster the higher your lift the front end. Even with UCAs, you can get a better tire alignment at the upper ball joints, but the tie rod ends will be a steep angle, creating more vertical forces in the center link, and your idler arm. The more you lift, the steeper the angle of the lower control arms is, which can also bind up and interfere with your lower shock mount and CV axle boot. Of course, I did wear these parts by off roading harder than you intend on using your X for...

This is just to serve as a reminder...UCAs do not fix all issues related to the lift. You can mitigate a lot with heavy duty parts, but you can't change the geometry that much with absolutely no increased wear and tear. You may not see the wear as fast as I did, based on how you drive, though.

Aftermarket UCAs are designed for one purpose: Lift your vehicle and align the upper ball joint. If you aren't into offroading, I don't see it as being worth the investment, especially given the other potential wear factors to the other parts. If you just do a PML, I would not worry too much on wearing out the front end parts. In my experience, I would worry more about wearing them out with UCAs and a higher lift.

If you are just going for a hunting truck to get through some trails, and aren't into towing, I would recommend:


1) Put the PML shackles on the rear, and leave the rear alone

2) Adjust the front torsion bars to the correct bump stop gap and keep the stock UCAs. Note that with the PML, you are usually limited with how much lift you can get. You will probably have a nose down rake slightly. That is normal.

3) If for some reason your upper ball joints really need to be replaced, or you absolutely hate the nose down rake, I would then make the jump to UCAs. You can get more lift and wheel travel. The upper ball joints are now serviceable with 4 bolts, and the UCAs are very strong. You can also get a perfectly leveled "PML" if you want...You won't need to use all of the adjustment in the front, but you have that option if you want to lift even more...

4) If you really like lifting your vehicle, and want to get more, buy the "Adjustable shackle" from 4x4parts.com ($90), and install that at the tallest setting and replace the PML shackle. That will bump the rear end up another 3/4", and you can then lift the front end a bit more with the extra room from UCAs.

Additional upgrades I would recommend:

1) Heavy duty tie rod adjusters
2) Total Chaos Idler Arm brace (best design over 4x4parts and Calimini)
3) Bandit4x4 idler arm bushings
4) Bilstein shocks


Note: I don't like stiffer springs...so I won't recommend adding leaf springs to the rear or stiffer torsion bars to the front. That is just me. I don't like the harsher ride unless I am towing a LOT.

This is my advice based on how I built my truck...

In hindsight, I reached the conclusion that the UCAs helped the alignment of the upper ball joint, they are stronger than stock, they allow more wheel travel/lift...BUT, in my opinion, they allow you to physically lift the front end near the geometric limits of the rest of the front suspension and steering (recreational hazard of offroading...). You will wear parts less with a PML than with the 3" SL...simply because the geometry is changed less.

If you aren't in desperate need of a higher than PML lift, and if you aren't really offroading a whole lot, I think UCAs and revolver shackles and add a leaf packs just aren't worth the time, effort, or cash.
 
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csparks13

Bought an X
Location
Katy, Tx
Thanks for the advice. I think I'm just going to go with what I have and postpone the SL. I can always do it later. I'm going to order the shocks and the IBA. As for the IAB bushings, will those install on the stock parts? I already have the PML shackles. Should I try to return the shackles I have and get the adjustable ones? Are these parts right?


Bandit4x4 Idler arm bushings $55
http://bandit4x4.com/4x4-truck-parts/steering-parts/idler-arm-bushing-replacements/

Total Chaos IAB $77
http://www.chaosfab.com/accessories.php?id=91420#91099

Calmini heavy duty tie rod adjustors $70
http://www.calmini.com/detail.php?b=1&m=1&t=10&p=443&n=
 

robcarync

Sliders
Location
Raleigh, NC
http://bandit4x4.com/4x4-truck-parts/steering-parts/oem-stock-idler-arm-bushings/

These are the heavy duty bushings for the stock idler arm

Idler arm Brace:



91131.jpg


I got mine from polyperformance.com ... about $42


Tie rod adjusters:

https://www.4x4parts.com/nissan/heavy-duty-tie-rod-adjustors-p-6361.html

or the Calimini ones will work


As far as the shackle goes...you need to kind of decide...UCA or no UCA...that is the deciding point which dictates how you go. The front only has 2 options (UCAs or no UCAs) If you don't get UCAs, you only have the PML shackle for the rear...simple with no choices :) . If you do get UCAs, you can use the adjustable shackle, add a leafs, revolver shackles, etc .... you have a lot of choices for the rear.

I would say for you situation, just stick with the PML shackle for now
 
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csparks13

Bought an X
Location
Katy, Tx
I think I'm sticking with the BL and PML and I'll order the shocks, IAB and steering parts also. I appreciate all the info and tips you offered. Tons a usufull information.

I need to replace my sway bar end links. Mine are shot. Any suggestions?
 

Muadeeb

Nissan al Gaib
Admin
Location
Dallas
I need to replace my sway bar end links. Mine are shot. Any suggestions?
If its the rear, that one is useless and can destroy the right shock if a link breaks.

For the front, I'm still running the links that came off the assembly line. Should probably fix that.

Sent via wild ferrets on crack
 

robcarync

Sliders
Location
Raleigh, NC
You do not NEED to upgrade to 3" bilsteins to run a PML and BL, but it is definitely an upgrade. If you recently swapped the shocks, no harm in waiting a while.

Without the front sway bar, the front end is FLEXY :) But weird to get used to driving. Not aware of any application specific aftermarket stuff, so I would suggest going through 1) Dealer for the parts you need or 2) Seeing if you can get a universal kit from Auto Zone or something...I have seen a universal "Sway bar end link" kit at our AZ here...but still not sure if it would work on our Xterras
 

csparks13

Bought an X
Location
Katy, Tx
I will upgrade the shocks later down the road I guess. Sure am tempted to go all in on the new ones. I hear great things about them. My hold back is I can put that $400 on my new tires. I just wanted to make sure its not a necesity right now. I just found a end link online thats a direct fit. Ill rip the back sway off when I do my lift. I plan to get the steering parts you mentioned also.
 

robcarync

Sliders
Location
Raleigh, NC
so can anyone here say that me getting the AC AAL (single leaf) is a good idea?

fyi i have a pml and a BL already.

BAD IDEA

The single AC AAL allegedly lifts 3" on its own...so you will have a super high rear end if you keep the PML shackle.

Single AAL sucks anyway...I had them on an old Tacoma and the ride was so stiff it was not comfortable. It was nice for towing though...
 

drbandkgb

Titan Swapped / SAS'd
Founding Member
I have a single aal... And I have zero issues. The single will not raise it 3".. 2" and it will settle down..

I pulled my over load took 30mins at the most

Still has a GREAT ride too
 

robcarync

Sliders
Location
Raleigh, NC
A stiffer spring will lift different heights depending on your front lift, gear/cargo and weight distribution of the truck. It is a spring...how far it stretches or compresses obviously varies depending on the forces on it.

If you pull your overload spring, that would lift is less too...so 2"+ if you leave it in (but...take it out, you won't need it)

Perhaps the single leaf isn't as bad on an Xterra vs. a Tacoma pick up truck with the increased weight on the rear axle...I know on my old Tacoma, the rear was just insanely stiff and harsh on the ride. We went that route though to keep the hitch from bottoming out when we were towing the boat...which for that purpose, worked great.

I still vote shackle route...but to each their own.
 
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