Star Wars 7 - Force Awakens **SPOILERS**
- Thread starter Muadeeb
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I actually very much enjoyed it. I went in very skeptical if they could pull it off or not.
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Why did they kill him!? Han solo! Whyyyy
thecoalition
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I expected it. I predicted a fair amount of the plot based off the trailers. I am an avid EU fan and so I was sad they scrapped the EU and changed things up...i.e. Ben was the name of Luke's kid, while Han's were Anakin, Jacen and Jaina.
I figured Abrams was going to pick and choose what he wanted from the EU and still change it even more. In the EU, Chewie dies, but I figured for this story, Han had to go for Kylo to go from dark jedi to sith.
At the same time, the battle between light and dark must be really solidified in him because when Anakin was under Palpatine he went sith pretty fast and fully went over the edge when Order 66 was executed. Now Kylo supposedly killed a bunch of jedi with his knights of ren while under Luke. Then he killed his own dad, but still didn't have the full Sith mode eyes and what not. You could also tell in his fight with Rey that he was trying to get himself angry and what not (punching his wounds) to keep on the dark side.
I really thought Adam Driver did a good job playing the role. There was a couple plot holes I want to see addressed. How was Finn able to stand toe to toe with Kylo at all...unless he's possibly force sensitive as well. annnnd Rey learned to use the force a little too quickly imo. She goes from not knowing about it, to jedi mind tricking and battling with Kylo and beating him to hell. There must be more to develop in the next film. Then again...if I am right with her being Luke's kid, they may play off the idea that Luke is the most powerful jedi currently...I would argue Yoda/PloKoon/Kit Fisto/Palpatine/Vader were more powerful overall.
I figured Abrams was going to pick and choose what he wanted from the EU and still change it even more. In the EU, Chewie dies, but I figured for this story, Han had to go for Kylo to go from dark jedi to sith.
At the same time, the battle between light and dark must be really solidified in him because when Anakin was under Palpatine he went sith pretty fast and fully went over the edge when Order 66 was executed. Now Kylo supposedly killed a bunch of jedi with his knights of ren while under Luke. Then he killed his own dad, but still didn't have the full Sith mode eyes and what not. You could also tell in his fight with Rey that he was trying to get himself angry and what not (punching his wounds) to keep on the dark side.
I really thought Adam Driver did a good job playing the role. There was a couple plot holes I want to see addressed. How was Finn able to stand toe to toe with Kylo at all...unless he's possibly force sensitive as well. annnnd Rey learned to use the force a little too quickly imo. She goes from not knowing about it, to jedi mind tricking and battling with Kylo and beating him to hell. There must be more to develop in the next film. Then again...if I am right with her being Luke's kid, they may play off the idea that Luke is the most powerful jedi currently...I would argue Yoda/PloKoon/Kit Fisto/Palpatine/Vader were more powerful overall.
I loved it, too. I really like the new characters and Daisy Ridley was phenomenal. She is going to be a huge star beyond these films.
I also have an issue with how fast Rey commanded the Force as Coalition said above. A lot of the plot was just pages ripped straight out of A New Hope and rewritten. I think that is a winning formula for the franchise. Thankfully, there is actually great acting unlike 1-3. I hate that Han is gone but I get it. I was literally thinking to myself, "Yes! Han Solo is back with his quick quips and badass self!" Then, he is gone. Overall, very good job by Abrams. I love it and am now counting down to May 2017.
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I also have an issue with how fast Rey commanded the Force as Coalition said above. A lot of the plot was just pages ripped straight out of A New Hope and rewritten. I think that is a winning formula for the franchise. Thankfully, there is actually great acting unlike 1-3. I hate that Han is gone but I get it. I was literally thinking to myself, "Yes! Han Solo is back with his quick quips and badass self!" Then, he is gone. Overall, very good job by Abrams. I love it and am now counting down to May 2017.
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I'm going to preface this post with some general garbage so that those in Tapatalk can't see the question I'm going to ask. Because that could give away spoilers. And that's not cool.
I loved the movie. It was well acted, well written, well directed. JJ Abrams is the man. I was absolutely astonished at the lack of lens flare though. Astonished and relieved.
Now to the question.
Where the hell did Luke's lightsaber come from? That's the one that was lost in Empire when Luke's hand was severed on Cloud City. That'd be a 1 in a million find.
Kylo Ren. Without the helmet looked a bit like a lady boy.
I was admittedly confused as well by Finn's ability to wield a lightsaber. That's not something you just do.....
The obvious assumption is that Rey is Luke's daughter. But if he was strict to the Jedi code I don't see how that's possible. We know he was involved in hiding her on Jakku, but that's all we know.
I want to see the outtakes from the final scene with Luke and Rey on the hillside. I could see Mark Hamill making complete and total fun of that scene.
I loved the movie. It was well acted, well written, well directed. JJ Abrams is the man. I was absolutely astonished at the lack of lens flare though. Astonished and relieved.
Now to the question.
Where the hell did Luke's lightsaber come from? That's the one that was lost in Empire when Luke's hand was severed on Cloud City. That'd be a 1 in a million find.
Kylo Ren. Without the helmet looked a bit like a lady boy.
I was admittedly confused as well by Finn's ability to wield a lightsaber. That's not something you just do.....
The obvious assumption is that Rey is Luke's daughter. But if he was strict to the Jedi code I don't see how that's possible. We know he was involved in hiding her on Jakku, but that's all we know.
I want to see the outtakes from the final scene with Luke and Rey on the hillside. I could see Mark Hamill making complete and total fun of that scene.
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***Warning to non-Star Wars geeks - If you haven't kept up with the Expanded Universe that exists outside of the movies... this could be a spoiler for future movies***
Hey, guys.
Glad to read discussion on this. I just saw the movie and have my own questions... and no one with a clue about EU to talk to. I'm not a big EU fan, but I've kept up more than the average Joe.
I see that Abrams is dropping hints that Rey has a connection to Luke and Kylo is Ben Solo. Despite the Rey/Skywalker innuendo, I was convinced that Rey is actually Jaina Solo. She's far too in-sync with Han; they were finishing each other's sentences regularly. Kylo's comment when he was reading her mind that Han is "like the father she never had" seemed pretty suggestive... did he see something when he was probing her mind? And who the hell is Ben Solo? Never heard of a Solo named Ben (not that one doesn't exist). There is another Jedi named Ben out there, but he isn't a Solo. Is JJ setting up a Solo/Skywalker bait and switch?
There's an insane amount of parallelism going on in this movie... are we looking at another surprise twist- "I AM YOUR FATHER" light side/dark side moment?
-Rok
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I have not kept up with the EU at all. Maybe that's something I should do. Where would be a good place to start?
I hope not we're not in another "I am your father" deal. I really don't want another Vader character arc. Kylo Ren should be the ultimate bad guy. No chance of redemption.
I hope not we're not in another "I am your father" deal. I really don't want another Vader character arc. Kylo Ren should be the ultimate bad guy. No chance of redemption.
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Sorry I quoted you there... you had some astute questions so I assumed that you knew a little about the extended universe.
I haven't read much of the EU stuff, but I have a couple of friends who are die hard fans and they fill me in from time to time. I Googled different combinations of Solo/Skywalker names looking for EU links and I found that the Wiki pages for "Solo family" and "Skywalker family" have a bunch of references to EU story-lines. The family trees presented at the bottom of each family page are interesting to me, they seem to be very complete with the exception of one Skywalker child in particular... and he isn't a girl.
One disclaimer though: I'm pretty sure that George Lucas allowed the EU to be created as an "alternate universe" that had no guaranteed tie in with the movies. But I think the existence of the solo twins has been in place since before Return of the Jedi came out so it's hard for me to believe that JJ/Disney would try to rewrite that part of the Star Wars universe. But who knows really?
-Rok
Edit - I just read that Disney decided to discard the expanded universe. I wonder how George Lucas feels about that, I know that a lot of effort was put into keeping that world fairly consistent. That really sucks that they're using names from the EU - like Ben. Strike one, Disney.
I haven't read much of the EU stuff, but I have a couple of friends who are die hard fans and they fill me in from time to time. I Googled different combinations of Solo/Skywalker names looking for EU links and I found that the Wiki pages for "Solo family" and "Skywalker family" have a bunch of references to EU story-lines. The family trees presented at the bottom of each family page are interesting to me, they seem to be very complete with the exception of one Skywalker child in particular... and he isn't a girl.
One disclaimer though: I'm pretty sure that George Lucas allowed the EU to be created as an "alternate universe" that had no guaranteed tie in with the movies. But I think the existence of the solo twins has been in place since before Return of the Jedi came out so it's hard for me to believe that JJ/Disney would try to rewrite that part of the Star Wars universe. But who knows really?
-Rok
Edit - I just read that Disney decided to discard the expanded universe. I wonder how George Lucas feels about that, I know that a lot of effort was put into keeping that world fairly consistent. That really sucks that they're using names from the EU - like Ben. Strike one, Disney.
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Another question:
We know that Kylo/Ben studied under Luke and that Luke went into isolation when Ben turned to the dark side. Did Luke have something to do with Ben's slide to the dark side? Could he have revealed something that freaked Ben out?
-Rok
We know that Kylo/Ben studied under Luke and that Luke went into isolation when Ben turned to the dark side. Did Luke have something to do with Ben's slide to the dark side? Could he have revealed something that freaked Ben out?
-Rok
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Don't you dare apologize to me! Heh. I knew some blurbs about EU content but have never read any of the books. I did some reading of the status of the EU last night. Essentially if you can't watch it on a screen it isn't canon anymore. Even though there are lots of EU elements that made it into various movies.
My understanding is that Kylo Ben became obsessed with his grandfather and was lured to the dark side like that. As much is obvious since he posesses Vader's melted helmet. But I'm wondering what aspects of Vader's story was attractive. His journey through the dark side is pretty damn tragic I'd you ask me.
My understanding is that Kylo Ben became obsessed with his grandfather and was lured to the dark side like that. As much is obvious since he posesses Vader's melted helmet. But I'm wondering what aspects of Vader's story was attractive. His journey through the dark side is pretty damn tragic I'd you ask me.
Leonardo?
Finally saw it in probably the worst theater ever. 'Meh' was my basic response, felt it was over-hyped for what it was. Definitely felt like they repurposed a LOT of the 4/5/6 plot into this, especially with the Kylo walking onto the bridge over the void and his father behind him thing. I knew the EU was going to be non cannon, and there probably isn't any other way they could do it. To movie-cise all that content, Disney would have to pay rights to each author whose work they used. And the only way to do it properly would to be to start with the Thrawn trilogy, something they couldn't do now 30 years after the last one.
Little bit of stream of consciousness for me here... Solo's death was sad for me as a fan, but for Kylo's arc it felt right. I'm wondering when he's going to capture Leia to lure Luke into a trap. 8 will probably end with her capture. I get that Rae is probably Luke's daughter, but part of me thinks she might be Ben's twin. Finn may not be a full fledged force user, but he is most likely sensitive. We've even seen that a non-jedi can activate a light saber (Han, Ep5), but that he held his own against Kylo even for a couple of minutes is interesting. The people we say it with even thought that it was the force that knocked him from his conditioning.
Now I have to see it again with Mrs. in a decent theater.
Finally saw it in probably the worst theater ever. 'Meh' was my basic response, felt it was over-hyped for what it was. Definitely felt like they repurposed a LOT of the 4/5/6 plot into this, especially with the Kylo walking onto the bridge over the void and his father behind him thing. I knew the EU was going to be non cannon, and there probably isn't any other way they could do it. To movie-cise all that content, Disney would have to pay rights to each author whose work they used. And the only way to do it properly would to be to start with the Thrawn trilogy, something they couldn't do now 30 years after the last one.
Little bit of stream of consciousness for me here... Solo's death was sad for me as a fan, but for Kylo's arc it felt right. I'm wondering when he's going to capture Leia to lure Luke into a trap. 8 will probably end with her capture. I get that Rae is probably Luke's daughter, but part of me thinks she might be Ben's twin. Finn may not be a full fledged force user, but he is most likely sensitive. We've even seen that a non-jedi can activate a light saber (Han, Ep5), but that he held his own against Kylo even for a couple of minutes is interesting. The people we say it with even thought that it was the force that knocked him from his conditioning.
Now I have to see it again with Mrs. in a decent theater.
StupidFish
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Once i saw candy so i ate it.
Kylo (darth emo) has to be reys twin. As far as how the lightsaber turned up on that intergalactic rest stop run by a librarian im sure that will get explained away later. I was confused why there was a map of lukes location. I mean, if you run away from it all especially if you think youre a failure the last thing you do is prepare a map so people can find you.
Still enjoyed the movie tho. Good movie.
Kylo (darth emo) has to be reys twin. As far as how the lightsaber turned up on that intergalactic rest stop run by a librarian im sure that will get explained away later. I was confused why there was a map of lukes location. I mean, if you run away from it all especially if you think youre a failure the last thing you do is prepare a map so people can find you.
Still enjoyed the movie tho. Good movie.
thecoalition
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Here's why I think Han is not the Daddy - when he offered her a job aboard the falcon he explicitly tells her the family she is waiting for is never coming back. Why would he nor Leia say - oh btw we are your parents, when they were so open about Kylo?
I'm still putting money on Luke being the dad...because Mara Jade in the movies would be awesome...
thecoalition
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Lucas had no say in the EU really. He just let it happen, but never corrected anything that was written.
thecoalition
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Thrawn Trilogy - Three books just after RotJ - Luke still learning to master the force, Grand Admiral Thrawn is trying to maintain the presence of the Empire and doing a damn good job of keeping the New Republic from getting their crap together. Thrawn gets a dark jedi (not sith) to help him do this.
Then I would def read The New Jedi Order series (extragalactic invasion from crazy zealots who use no machinery and basically are not affected by the force), Legacy of the Force Series (Jacen Solo's rise and fall from light to dark side - really good), Fate of the Jedi (post Jacen solo - Republic now views Jedi as rogue soldiers and are trying to do something about them while a whole bunch of dark sith stuff is happening too)
Don't want to describe details since I haven't gotten to Fate of the Jedi yet and I don't want to spoil any of the books.
Those series were all originally dubbed as canon before Disney scrapped the EU as canon. Now they are considered part of the main "legends line"
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I haven't read any other posts yet. So this is more of a small rant.
1) Kylo Ren. Just reminds me of a five year old throwing a temper tantrum and breaking stuff.
2) Ray (sp?) magically can stand toe to toe with Kylo Ren who has had Jedi and obviously now sith training.
3) r2d2 has vital information but says "ahhhh f*ck it. I'm going into extended sleep mode".
4) How many Death Star versions do they have to fight? It's getting old.
There's more but that's my main gripes.
1) Kylo Ren. Just reminds me of a five year old throwing a temper tantrum and breaking stuff.
2) Ray (sp?) magically can stand toe to toe with Kylo Ren who has had Jedi and obviously now sith training.
3) r2d2 has vital information but says "ahhhh f*ck it. I'm going into extended sleep mode".
4) How many Death Star versions do they have to fight? It's getting old.
There's more but that's my main gripes.
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Then maybe you should read the rest of the posts.
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Did thanks. Most of the same opinion.
thecoalition
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Ok so saw it again yesterday - couple of notes:
- I was wrong and it was Maz who says you know your family isnt coming back, not Han like I originally said
- Maz tells Rey that the lightsaber was Lukes and his fathers before him, and now it calls to her...reinforcing my theory that she is Luke's kid, although could be Han and Leia's but it wouldn't make sense that they would not have told her that already.
- In Rey's vision you hear Yoda, and both versions of Obi Wan (Alec and Ewan) - I just thought that was really cool
-Still think Finn may be force sensitive - "there has been an awakening, do you feel it?" was asked by Snoke - they never refer to who, but we clearly can see Rey is.
- I still feel like Kylo could have been a little stronger, but I get that they wanted him to be moody and unstable due to him fighting the pull to the light, where as Anakin was fighting the pull to the dark. We know he can be incredibly strong when he's dark (stopping a blaster bolt and holding it suspended and keeping people from moving - Rey and Poe) which is something they never had anyone else do in the movies afaik.
- I was wrong and it was Maz who says you know your family isnt coming back, not Han like I originally said
- Maz tells Rey that the lightsaber was Lukes and his fathers before him, and now it calls to her...reinforcing my theory that she is Luke's kid, although could be Han and Leia's but it wouldn't make sense that they would not have told her that already.
- In Rey's vision you hear Yoda, and both versions of Obi Wan (Alec and Ewan) - I just thought that was really cool
-Still think Finn may be force sensitive - "there has been an awakening, do you feel it?" was asked by Snoke - they never refer to who, but we clearly can see Rey is.
- I still feel like Kylo could have been a little stronger, but I get that they wanted him to be moody and unstable due to him fighting the pull to the light, where as Anakin was fighting the pull to the dark. We know he can be incredibly strong when he's dark (stopping a blaster bolt and holding it suspended and keeping people from moving - Rey and Poe) which is something they never had anyone else do in the movies afaik.
Tay-Lo
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You'd think they would stop putting treches in their build plans
NMTerras
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Finn the son of Lando Kalrissian? He was taken from his family and made a storm trooper, and Sky City was overtaken by the empire...he's definitely got some jedi blood in him, as evidenced both by how easily he overcame his storm trooper training and how he handled a light sabre.
Rei was like Luke - the Force is very strong in her. She is just way less of a lil' *****, and therefore was more prepared to embrace/wield the power. (I forgot how much of a whiner Luke was in 4 until I watched it in preparation for this one). The cop-out position is Rei is Luke's daughter, but I don't think that's it. When he found out Leia was his sister, he went monk mode. I'm going with sister to Kylo Ren. The explosion/rift between them --> symbolic.
Rei was like Luke - the Force is very strong in her. She is just way less of a lil' *****, and therefore was more prepared to embrace/wield the power. (I forgot how much of a whiner Luke was in 4 until I watched it in preparation for this one). The cop-out position is Rei is Luke's daughter, but I don't think that's it. When he found out Leia was his sister, he went monk mode. I'm going with sister to Kylo Ren. The explosion/rift between them --> symbolic.
thecoalition
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But Abrams took EU ideas and references and just changed them a bit. The new deathstar was essentially a less mobile Sun Crusher. Instead of Jacen Solo becoming Darth Cadeaus he had Ben Solo become Kylo Ren.
In the EU Luke did have a Wife and a son. No reason to say JJ didn't like the idea, but put his own spin on it.
In the EU Luke did have a Wife and a son. No reason to say JJ didn't like the idea, but put his own spin on it.
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Kinda what I was thinking as well. In the EU, Luke's son is named Ben.
Although it's a long shot, I'm sticking with my Rey Solo/Ben Skywalker theory. That would give JJ the "I am your father" reveal that will parallel the original trilogy.
-Rok
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I hope there is no such reveal. I want this to be a new story instead of a repeat of the original.
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Agreed. I hope it doesn't continue down that path.
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I agree.. I think rei is the sister to the solo kid
obi_krash
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I am really wanting Rey to be a Kenobi.
(no, not because of my name).
But there could be a chance that she is a Kenobi mixed with Skywalker, which would explain why she is so strong with the Force and why Obi-Wan "spoke" to her in her vision. I really don't think she could be a Solo, they don't talk about their daughter - Leia says her biggest regret was letting Ben train with Luke. They make no mention of a daughter at all. I mean, yeah, Han was pretty impressed with Rey's fix in the Falcon and wanted her to join him. But they would have some sort of memory having taken from them. And Rey has memories of her family leaving and she wasn't too young to not remember her parents names when she was dropped off on Jakku.
(no, not because of my name).
But there could be a chance that she is a Kenobi mixed with Skywalker, which would explain why she is so strong with the Force and why Obi-Wan "spoke" to her in her vision. I really don't think she could be a Solo, they don't talk about their daughter - Leia says her biggest regret was letting Ben train with Luke. They make no mention of a daughter at all. I mean, yeah, Han was pretty impressed with Rey's fix in the Falcon and wanted her to join him. But they would have some sort of memory having taken from them. And Rey has memories of her family leaving and she wasn't too young to not remember her parents names when she was dropped off on Jakku.
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That would be cool. But I don't see how it'd be possible.
obi_krash
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If you kinda bounce around the idea that it was insinuated that Kenobi had something going with another character in the animated Clone Wars series (which is canon, so it could work), then you have the possibility of a secret love child being created.
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Haha.
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Ha! Love it.
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Saw it for second time. I enjoyed it much more the second go.
More thoughts on Finn and current storm troopers. What if all current storm troopers are brain washed force sensitives created to hunt Jedi?
When he "awoke" Kylo Ren sensed it. During the discussion on the ship it shows a picture of baby Finn and they say he has never had problems before. Then when finn was battling the storm trooper with Luke's lightsaber, the trooper had a saber resistant weapon, why?
Just a thought. Also would be cool if Finn was somehow related to Windu to tie in a good character from the prequel.
More thoughts on Finn and current storm troopers. What if all current storm troopers are brain washed force sensitives created to hunt Jedi?
When he "awoke" Kylo Ren sensed it. During the discussion on the ship it shows a picture of baby Finn and they say he has never had problems before. Then when finn was battling the storm trooper with Luke's lightsaber, the trooper had a saber resistant weapon, why?
Just a thought. Also would be cool if Finn was somehow related to Windu to tie in a good character from the prequel.
Pro-2X
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The light saber resistant weapon piqued my interest as well. Never thought of the Mace Windu idea though. That would be cool if Rey was a Kenobi and Finn was a Windu.
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