Wheel Flop

[COXterra]

When I pull into a parking spot/turn at full lock on pavement(in 2WD of course) my wheels feel like they are "flopping" in a sense. It is kinda hard to explain, but I have no idea what it could be. Also while driving on a road with sand on it at low speeds(like parking lots after it snows), it feels like the wheels are pointing towards each other. There is some slippage from the front wheels.

I have an AC 3"SL, Calmini HD steering system w/ Bandit bushings, brand new ball joints, 33" tires with normal wear and inflated to the correct PSI. I just got an alignment last week. I also repacked my bearings and replaced the hub seals less than a year ago.

Could this be something to do with the PS gearbox? or LBJ's? Any other ideas?

 

[NismoFire]

The alignment may have been done incorrectly. Sounds like it's pigeon-toed.

 

[drbandkgb]

It does sound pigon-toed And if it did start then you wouldnt see bad tire wear real fast..
I may take it back to the shop and ask them to check it out..

 

[COXterra]

This has been going on for a while now. It was doing this before my last alignment. I got it done at Firestone, who just hired a guy who specializes in lifted vehicles. Would a bad alignment cause the wheel to flop on a turn? That is more of my concern since one night coming home I felt the wheel while driving do the flop and it almost seemed like one tire didnt even have traction( I may have hit black ice and didn't know though). How sure are you that this is the alignment? Could it be anything else?

When I am in 4WD in the snow and hit the gas, it has also been pulling hard to the left. Maybe it is the alignment and I just need to get them to follow the specs posted. When I get home next week I will try to post my specs from the alignment.

 

[drbandkgb]

The only thing I could see is a broken shock or broken T-Bar maybe?? maybe look to see if anything looks bent under it too

 

[COXterra]

Both of those are fine. I checked them pretty recently. Also to add, my steering has been super sloppy. The bump steer is out of control. Since I got the alignment recently it has gotten significantly better, but it is still loose. I know the X isn't a sports car, but when I hit a bump in the road, I would prefer to not break my wrist/lose control. I'll get them to realign it to the lifted specs this time and see what that does. I'm praying that solves all of my problems.

If you can think of anything else that might be causing this, please let me know! Thanks for the help!

 

[drbandkgb]

May hit up RacerXXL on this one...

 

[J Everett]

Sounds like the caster angle (angle of the steering axis, from center of the upper ball joint through the center of the lower ball joint to the ground) is off, which a lift will definitely affect, and there isn't much you can do about it. My wheels feel a little strange turning at full lock too, ever since I put in the 2" SL and 33" tires. Also, changing tire size or wheel offset affects this too. Ideally, you want the point at which the line of the steering axis intersects the ground (what I call the Dave Point, because I used to read entirely too much SportCompact Car magazine) to be in the exact center of the tire's contact patch. Changing the at-rest suspension geometry (lifting or lowering), width of the tire, diameter of the tire, or wheel offset moves the contact patch around relative to the Dave point, and it will definitely affect the way the steering feels at full lock.

 

[Jmac289gt]

The sloppyness of the wheel over bumps and the toed in tires is all what I experienced when my CL went bad the first time. If I backed into a parking spot and looked at it from the front I could see the tires did not set the same. How long have you had the Calmini HD steering kit on? And do you like it by the way...I just ordered mine.

 

[COXterra]

I've had the kit on since August. It is second hand though, but IIRC the TREs were replaced within the last year. To be honest, there seems to be a lot more play than my stock steering set up. I have the peace of mind to know it is significantly stronger at least. I may just break down and get a steering stabilizer to tighten it up.

 

[Jmac289gt]

If your CL is not right you will probably have some bad tire wear and it will just get worst. I would have that checked out as soon as you can. I think Calmini will sell you just replacement parts if you called them.

 

[COXterra]

I'm definitely thinking it's pigeon-toed. Driving over ice, the steering decides to take on an epileptic stage. Just with driving straight on ice, the wheels seem to have a mind of their own and pull all the place. It definitely feels unstable.

The centerlink is fine. I may replace the wheel bearing seals to see it that helps too. And of course try getting a better alignment. Tires have been wearing slightly more on the outside do to poor alignments over the last year. Nothing drastic though

 

[RacerXXL]

I'm definitely thinking it's pigeon-toed. Driving over ice, the steering decides to take on an epileptic stage. Just with driving straight on ice, the wheels seem to have a mind of their own and pull all the place. It definitely feels unstable.

The centerlink is fine. I may replace the wheel bearing seals to see it that helps too. And of course try getting a better alignment. Tires have been wearing slightly more on the outside do to poor alignments over the last year. Nothing drastic though

If you are going to replace the inner seals to try and fix this are you replacing the wheel bearings as well? Have to pull the inner seal to replace the bearings so if you are concerned the problem is in there do them both at the same time. Could be shot bearings causing it to wonder.

 

[RacerXXL]

Both of those are fine. I checked them pretty recently. Also to add, my steering has been super sloppy. The bump steer is out of control. Since I got the alignment recently it has gotten significantly better, but it is still loose. I know the X isn't a sports car, but when I hit a bump in the road, I would prefer to not break my wrist/lose control. I'll get them to realign it to the lifted specs this time and see what that does. I'm praying that solves all of my problems.

If you can think of anything else that might be causing this, please let me know! Thanks for the help!

What is the bumpstop gap and what bumpstops? Mine was downright dangerous with low profile bumstops and a .5" gap. I went up to over .5" but less then .75" and it drives great now.

 

[COXterra]

What is the bumpstop gap and what bumpstops? Mine was downright dangerous with low profile bumstops and a .5" gap. I went up to over .5" but less then .75" and it drives great now.

Maybe that's part of my problem. Mine are right around .5" with the ultra low pro bump stops. I'll lower it down a little and see if that helps. Just curious, how does that physically affect the steering? I really think it might be pigeon toed a little as well because of the push and pull effect on low traction surfaces.

 

[COXterra]

To give an update, I lowered it down a little and got an alignment according to the specs TJ posted on ClubX. It seems to handle a lot better. Some people at work and I noticed that one tire was pigeon-toed. I have about an inch of bump stop gap with the low pro bump stops. I'll let you know how it works out after a few days. I think I still may get a steering stabilizer to get rid of the bump steer.

 

[Jmac289gt]

Hope that took care of your issue...steering problems suck.

 

[AbuseTheElderly]

I have this issue when the wheel is turned all the way and I reverse, seems as though one wheel is flopping. I found that (at least on mine) it has to do with the t-bar crank, the new angle of the Tie-rods causes the wheels to not face the same direction while fully turned. It feels like a flop but that feeling is the tires rolling in slightly different directions until one tire gives and slides back in line. I have confirmed this by standing outside the truck while this happens, it is easiest to reproduce on pavement by reversing with the steering fully turned one direction. It can't be reproduced on dirt or gravel cause those surfaces allow constant slipping so your tires wont build up enough force to "flop". You may have had a misalignment but I'm pretty sure everyone could reproduce the "flop" you are talking about in some form. My X has done it since I got it and I have had multiple alignments, she rides perfectly straight.

 

[COXterra]

My biggest problem was driving on icy roads. We have been getting some good snow in Denver recently and there were some times when the wheel would be pulling hard right and left to the point of it feeling extremely unsafe to drive. So I lowered it down a little. I drove through the snow this morning to work this morning. Usually when I change lanes when the snow has piled up on the lines my wheels jerk all over the place. Today I had no issues. It drove right through without feeling unstable at all. I haven't felt the "flop" yet, but I'm sure it isn't gone.

 

[NMTerras]

My biggest problem was driving on icy roads. We have been getting some good snow in Denver recently and there were some times when the wheel would be pulling hard right and left to the point of it feeling extremely unsafe to drive. So I lowered it down a little. I drove through the snow this morning to work this morning. Usually when I change lanes when the snow has piled up on the lines my wheels jerk all over the place. Today I had no issues. It drove right through without feeling unstable at all. I haven't felt the "flop" yet, but I'm sure it isn't gone.

Bump for an update? I had similar issues before I replaced my stock steering with king kong. Flopping and pigeon toed caused by worn out CL and bushings.

 

[Xtacular]

Bump for an update? I had similar issues before I replaced my stock steering with king kong. Flopping and pigeon toed caused by worn out CL and bushings.

Did you have play in your CL if you tried to move it by hand when the front was in the air? I'm having similar issues, combined with alignment issues, and the CL is the only thing I haven't replaced in the steering. But it feels solid...

 

[NMTerras]

Did you have play in your CL if you tried to move it by hand when the front was in the air? I'm having similar issues, combined with alignment issues, and the CL is the only thing I haven't replaced in the steering. But it feels solid...

Good question. When I tried to move it it seemed fine. Took it to an alignment shop, he grabbed it and moved it like 2 inches...no idea what I did or didn't do...

 

[Silver dude]

When the truck is on jack stands or in the air its at maximum sag the upper end of its suspension travel which is rarely used. This isn't where the wear occurs. Its at the normal everyday ride height. So the components are most worn in this "normal cycle" area. As such when its up on stands you won't be able to identify the faults. But, when its on the ground you can't exactly wiggle the tires either. An alignment rack places ball bearing roller plates under the tires defeating the traction allowing you to move the tires and remove the tension. You can make your own roller plates if you wish. My friend did so with some bearing rollers from harbor freight. I personally place the rig on stands, take the tire off place my jack on the lower suspension arm and raise it till its at normal height then proceed to check the ball joints etc.

Ben

 

[Xtacular]

When the truck is on jack stands or in the air its at maximum sag the upper end of its suspension travel which is rarely used. This isn't where the wear occurs. Its at the normal everyday ride height. So the components are most worn in this "normal cycle" area. I personally place the rig on stands, take the tire off place my jack on the lower suspension arm and raise it till its at normal height then proceed to check the ball joints etc.

Ben

Excellent, thank you!

 

[NMTerras]

When the truck is on jack stands or in the air its at maximum sag the upper end of its suspension travel which is rarely used. This isn't where the wear occurs. Its at the normal everyday ride height. So the components are most worn in this "normal cycle" area. As such when its up on stands you won't be able to identify the faults. But, when its on the ground you can't exactly wiggle the tires either. An alignment rack places ball bearing roller plates under the tires defeating the traction allowing you to move the tires and remove the tension. You can make your own roller plates if you wish. My friend did so with some bearing rollers from harbor freight. I personally place the rig on stands, take the tire off place my jack on the lower suspension arm and raise it till its at normal height then proceed to check the ball joints etc.

Ben

I believe that is the answer. Thanks Ben!

 

[COXterra]

To give you an update, I haven't felt the wheel flop since I got it realigned to the lifted specs. I do feel a little more bump steer than I'd like, but one of these days I'll get a steering stabilizer to fix that

 

[NMTerras]

To give you an update, I haven't felt the wheel flop since I got it realigned to the lifted specs. I do feel a little more bump steer than I'd like, but one of these days I'll get a steering stabilizer to fix that

others no better than I, but wouldn't you be better off eliminating bump steer with steering system refresh/upgrades instead of masking problems with a "stabilizer"? I know I've read in numerous places the stabilizer is a bandaid that just covers up problems until they get worse...

 

[COXterra]

What kind of upgrades could I make at this point? I have the Calmini steering system, bandit bushings, and new ball joints. I'm not really sure what else to do

 

[NMTerras]

How old is the calmini system? New bushings for it maybe?

 

[COXterra]

I'm guessing the bushings are 3 years old. The system is probably 4-5years old. I bought it used from someone who was SASing last year. TRE's were replaced a few years ago and are in good condition. How can I tell if the bushings are bad?

 

[NMTerras]

I'm guessing the bushings are 3 years old. The system is probably 4-5years old. I bought it used from someone who was SASing last year. TRE's were replaced a few years ago and are in good condition. How can I tell if the bushings are bad?

Check out Silver Dude's post, above - that's how you can identify slop

 

[Silver dude]

Yeah to test a idler arm you push pull it up and down rather then pivot them side to side. Should have no up or down movement.

Ben