4 sake of info: Nissan HQ contacts you and-

Murdoch

Bought an X
Location
Toronto
So I thought out of general interest that I would throw this out there.
You are contacted by Nissan HQ to join a think tank as it were to create the X3 the 3rd generation of the Xterra.

What would you want to see in this rig inside and out?
I hope that this is the appropriate locale for this post. Apologies if it's not. Very excited to here from the masters...GM
 

TJTJ

Skid Plates
Founding Member
Location
NJ
So I thought out of general interest that I would throw this out there.
You are contacted by Nissan HQ to join a think tank as it were to create the X3 the 3rd generation of the Xterra.

What would you want to see in this rig inside and out?
I hope that this is the appropriate locale for this post. Apologies if it's not. Very excited to here from the masters...GM


A bittersweet question, given the 2015 is the last year scheduled.


I'd like to see a G3 go more utilitarian....back to the roots so to speak. That would reduce the cost, reduce the weight, reduce the foo foo stuff, etc....and, make the options more in the vein of a robust drivetrain/cage, 4:1 low range, F/R lockers, etc.

The X took off like a rocket when first introduced. Then, as makers seem to almost always do, they started "Improving it"...


So, just like a gen 1 Thunderbird is a 2-seat convertible, but, by the time its dead, its a 4-door sedan, etc...makers start basic and fun and affordable, and then try to make it work for EVERYONE, instead of their initial market niche.

So, people say, I'd get one, but it's too small, so, it gets bigger. It rides too rough, so they soften it up. MPG is too low, so they remove structural integrity to lighten it, etc. They can't fit the rest of the soccer team, so its bigger with more seats, so now its a larger, heavier vehicle, and, costs twice as much, and so on and so forth until its completely diluted as a concept...and only the name remains...

...and then EVEN THE NAME is diluted to the point where that one remaining attribute is also destroyed....and it dies of bloat.


A small robust 4wd SUV with decent mpg could work for example....but CAFE requirements are destroying the small SUV body on frame market segment. That leaves almost nothing in that category left, they're all going the way of the cute uni-ute: an endless cavalcade of all but indistinguishable bloated AWD uni-body hatchbacks...useless off road, and, called crossovers mostly. (Cross dressed station wagons)


Its gotten so bad I'm rooting for TESLA to make an SUV at this point.
 

Murdoch

Bought an X
Location
Toronto
That's an awesome start. What is foo foo and are you suggesting G3 should be smaller than G2? What is CAFE? GM
 

JeffPro4x

Hot Pipe
Super Moderator
Supporting Member
Location
Glenside, PA
I'd like f/r lockers and lower gearing like tj said. Wouldn't mind seeing the p4x Mickey Mouse lights swapped with a bar and a better rear suspension.
 

Murdoch

Bought an X
Location
Toronto
I'd like f/r lockers and lower gearing like tj said. Wouldn't mind seeing the p4x Mickey Mouse lights swapped with a bar and a better rear suspension.
OK so f/r lockers is something that off roader's would add to their rigs to get better performance when tackling the terrain. An essential add-on like skid plates or sliders. I just googled it and it surprises me that it doesn't come standard. This is great stuff thanx guys. Looking forward to hearing more...GM
 

Shadowdragon

First Fill-Up (of many)
Supporting Member
Location
Charlotte, NC
While I am saddened by the decreased interest from Nissan of their own glorious product. IF they ever did make a new X, i would love to see versatility and easy to work on parts. Utilitarian styling would be awesome, more places to store stuff more things with more uses. Wiring harnesses and AUX switches from the factory, similar to how Ford does their Super Duty line with built-in wiring for lights and whatever else the owner wants. I liked the Lockers on the Pro-4x models, that was one step in the right direction they took with the second gens. Someone hit it on the head saying they took the Xterra and tried making it for everyone... the pathfinder is a great example of what happens to a great vehicle when the masses wants one too and not just a niche group. I believe that's the only reason why the wrongler hasn't died yet.. Every teenager wants one and every 50+ year old guy wanting to freshen up their lives buys one and dresses it up and there it sits... a lifted jeep.. 36 inch wheels and all, but it never sees mud. The appeal of owning a rugged truck is something that most people want but that's all they want, they don't care about gear ratios or anything remotely off-road related.

Hell, the 2015 Pro-4x XTerra has HEATED SEATS! They started going down that road with it already, I would LOVE to see a Gen 3 but I'd prefer they kill the XTerra before its just another name sitting in the school carpool picking up kiddies for soccer practice.
 

TJTJ

Skid Plates
Founding Member
Location
NJ
Lower gear ratios do help on hills, but, the MAIN reason, off road, is to have more torque at low speeds combined with more fine control in rock crawling.

In rocks, you are maneuvering more precisely, as an inch to far in either direction might be totally useless, so you need fine control...and, if you have a high ratio, your idle speed might be too fast to be moving at, but, be too low to get enough torque to overcome an obstacle...

...so you want higher rpm to get enough torque, but, not have to go too fast at that RPM.


Lockers are simply to overcome the open differential issue that occur off road. An open diff essentially powers the faster tire and lets the slower tire coast...which works GREAT when on a road, going around a corner, where it pushes the outside tire in the turn and coasts the inside tire. (Differentiation - what a "differential" does) :D

OFF road, one tire, if it slips or gets hung in mid air, goes faster than the other one...and, therefore, the one with the LEAST traction is spinning, and the one WITH traction, just sits there, laughing at you...instead of pushing you, etc.

A LOCKER locks the two sides together, so they turn in unison, even if you are going around a corner. That works great off road, and is OK ON the road, UNLESS you ARE going around a corner, because the outside tire CAN'T go faster than the inside tire....so the tires chirp and squeal etc as they gain/break traction around the turn. That's why they make some lockers selectable, meaning, you can turn them off when not needed, or automatic, so they allow some differentiation, etc.


The above are why off roaders like lower gears and lockers.

The skid plates that do come stock are typically fairly flimsy affairs compared to the 3/16" steel plate skids we get in the after market or fab up, etc.

Weight is not good for mpg...and, makers have to meet CORPORATE AVERAGE FUEL ECONOMY standards (CAFE), so having a ~ 500 lb frame, plus thick steel skid plates, makes it tough for a rugged body on frame, truck based SUV, to compete in fuel economy with a delicate unibody cute ute of the same dimensions.
 

Murdoch

Bought an X
Location
Toronto
So TJTJ had just said that stock skids are 3/16 thick. How thick are the aftermarket skids and what type of steel are they using? Cold roll, learning a lot guys and I appreciate your patience with all the noob-dumb Q's. Are there a lot of folk fabricating pieces on their own or is the majority leaning towards aftermarket? Thanx guys...GM
 

Shadowdragon

First Fill-Up (of many)
Supporting Member
Location
Charlotte, NC
There's a lot of aftermarket stuff out there. I'm pretty sure the stock skids are made of aluminium.. Steel, no matter how thick, would be an upgrade from the stock skids.

And J, yea but at least it looks good doing it!
 

robcarync

Sliders
Location
Raleigh, NC
Stock skid is not really a skid plate, but a splash plate. It is steel, but thin stamped steel.

After market skids are steel... 3/16" thick and bent for added rigidity.
 

TJTJ

Skid Plates
Founding Member
Location
NJ
So TJTJ had just said that stock skids are 3/16 thick. How thick are the aftermarket skids and what type of steel are they using? Cold roll, learning a lot guys and I appreciate your patience with all the noob-dumb Q's. Are there a lot of folk fabricating pieces on their own or is the majority leaning towards aftermarket? Thanx guys...GM

No, I said stock were flimsy affairs COMPARED TO aftermarket skids that were 3/16" steel plate.


The skid plates that do come stock are typically fairly flimsy affairs compared to the 3/16" steel plate skids we get in the after market or fab up, etc.

Weight is not good for mpg...and, makers have to meet CORPORATE AVERAGE FUEL ECONOMY standards (CAFE), so having a ~ 500 lb frame, plus thick steel skid plates, makes it tough for a rugged body on frame, truck based SUV, to compete in fuel economy with a delicate unibody cute ute of the same dimensions.


:D

Anyway - on The X at least, the OEM "skids", as mentioned, are closer to splash plates than skid plates.

The OEM gas tank skid is the closest to functional, but, not close enough to BE functional except in a super light duty sort of way. IE: Some people have DOUBLED the OEM gas skids to make a poor man's skid plate for off road, and they're still too weak.


There are a few companies selling pre-fabbed skids, Skid-Row and Shrockworks for example. As skid plates are just that, plates you can drag yourself along over rocks, etc, w/o getting snagged/stuck, or crushing/puncturing something important, with a little ingenuity, you can make your own too.

The trick is to put strategic folds and creases for strength where needed, and, to allow mounting points that line up with string under-body points, and, don't expose the mounts to trail damage (Like shearing off the heads of the bolts holding the plate up, etc).

People have tried things like polyethylene, aluminum and steel...and, steel is the most protective, but the heaviest. Aluminum is light, but has trouble when stress is applied in the middle of a longer span, and, trouble gouging deeply on sharp rocks which can hang you up....plus, its very expensive, etc. Polyethylene is very light, but has so little structural integrity that it only works as a low friction surface unless substantial bracing is added, etc.

Some people have gone up to 1/4" steel plate...but if you look up the weight per square foot of various thickness steels...you'd see that 1/4" plate steel will be a lot of ballast down there, taxing your suspension, load carrying and motion damping capacities, etc.
 
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