- Location
- Amarillo, TX
if stock tires are 32's, and 33's fit with a melt mod (narrow 33's fit with no mod) why is it that you have to trim to stuff 35's if you have a 2" suspension lift?
help me understand.....
- Thread starter dhyde79
- Start date
- Location
- SW OK & formerly Eastern NM
Because you rub in the front. Right?
- Location
- Amarillo, TX
that wasn't the impression I got....
the impression I got on tnx was that you'd end up rubbing in the top of the fender well on both front and rear, but, mathematically that's incorrect....a 35" wheel is 1.5" taller from the center of the wheel/hub to the top of the tread, a 2" lift compensates for the added tire size with .5" extra...perhaps it's the added width that causes the problem?
the impression I got on tnx was that you'd end up rubbing in the top of the fender well on both front and rear, but, mathematically that's incorrect....a 35" wheel is 1.5" taller from the center of the wheel/hub to the top of the tread, a 2" lift compensates for the added tire size with .5" extra...perhaps it's the added width that causes the problem?
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- Location
- Huntsville, AL
Its probably similar to the reason why we 1st gen guys can only run 32's MAX without a BL. Up-Travel.
- Location
- Rhode Island
A suspension won't nessasarily give you more articulation.
The front on our ifs trucks will always have a max stopped by our axle angles and bump stops. When cranking, it will give you a higher ride height.
The backs still will be limited by the springs. Again, higher ride height, but won't nessasarily give you more axle droop. SL are like pre drooping your suspension. One thing that will increase that would be revolver shackles. They allow for greater rear axle movement.
The front on our ifs trucks will always have a max stopped by our axle angles and bump stops. When cranking, it will give you a higher ride height.
The backs still will be limited by the springs. Again, higher ride height, but won't nessasarily give you more axle droop. SL are like pre drooping your suspension. One thing that will increase that would be revolver shackles. They allow for greater rear axle movement.
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ryandavenport
Guest
Just because the truck is lifted 2 inches doesn't mean there is an extra 2 inches of space all around inside the wheel well. You have to get the tire so far out of the wheel well to allow suspension expansion and compression, also known as up travel and droop. Also, you would be hard pressed to find a 10.5 or 11.5 inch wide 35 just because the height I so high. When you lift it, a smaller part of the tire is parallel with the frame. Say that at stock ride height, the middle of the tire (straight through the lugs parallel with the ground) is contacting the frame. If you lift it two inches, and then draw a line from the contact point of the frame to the tire, parallel to the ground. You would see that the line on the tire is higher up now, and it also is shorter (secant line instead of diameter). Since it sill pivots at the same point, that means less of the tire is in the wheel well on turns. With 35s, you need a lot less tire in the wheel well on turns.
So to run 35s on a second gen. You need at least 3 inches of suspension lift and at least 2 inches of body lift, or a drop bracket lift totaling 5 inches of lift.
Sent from my DROIDX
So to run 35s on a second gen. You need at least 3 inches of suspension lift and at least 2 inches of body lift, or a drop bracket lift totaling 5 inches of lift.
Sent from my DROIDX
- Location
- Amarillo, TX
gah.....I'm NOT using body lift, and absolutely not, no way, not gonna happen, never using a drop bracket....I will have to go back to the drawing board and figure out a way to make it happen.
as far as it goes though, the 2" SL does force the center line of the hub to sit 2" lower than it originally did, so, you HAVE created 2" more room above the tire, but, the pivot point may be what I'm not taking into account...perhaps a taller bump stop would work at that point so it's limited before contact is made...
as far as it goes though, the 2" SL does force the center line of the hub to sit 2" lower than it originally did, so, you HAVE created 2" more room above the tire, but, the pivot point may be what I'm not taking into account...perhaps a taller bump stop would work at that point so it's limited before contact is made...
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ryandavenport
Guest
But why would you want to limit suspension travel on your truck to run some bigger tires? Just be content with 33s, or move to a body lift, drop bracket, or serious trimming.
Sent from my DROIDX
Sent from my DROIDX
- Location
- Rhode Island
Are you offroading? With out uptravle there is no down travle on the opposite side. Thus you will be unable to keep both tires on ground and have a lot more issues with trying to overcome obsticles. To put it into perspective, putting a SL on either a 1st or 2nd gen you have a limiting tire size. 1st = 32" with some rub. 2nd=33" with rub unless you melt mold. Anything bigger WITHOUT a body lift is not going to fit. One thing can make them fit, cutting. Cutting up fenders and reshaping the back part of the wheel well.
Why again are you so against a BL? A max of 2" is actually pretty easy. I didnt have to do any recustomization on my '02 and am now looking at being able to fit 33" with ease this summer.
Why again are you so against a BL? A max of 2" is actually pretty easy. I didnt have to do any recustomization on my '02 and am now looking at being able to fit 33" with ease this summer.
- Location
- Columbus, OH
Ricel - IFS and a live rear axle's what we've got. Up travel in the front, while important, doesn't limit the other side all that much. On the rear, it's different as uptravel can help push the axle down on the other side but from what I've seen all that happens is that you get more body lean.
I'm also running 33's with no problem on a 2" spacer/shackle lift with the melt mod. No body lift needed.
I'm also running 33's with no problem on a 2" spacer/shackle lift with the melt mod. No body lift needed.
- Location
- Amarillo, TX
I put 285/75R16 (33") BFG Mud Terrain KM2's on at Discount tire, had them put the jack under the tire and stuff it as high as their jack would go then stepped on the slider on that side and didn't make contact, the only "contact" we could find was about a millimeter of plastic needed shaving off of one of the bumps in the back of the fender well plastic. the melt mod is needed because of added tire width not extra height.
I think the picture on why it doesn't change what fits without contact becomes clear when you draw a sketch....
The lift comes from the fact that you're adding longer suspension components on, so, you have more down travel, but no increase in up unless you drop bracket or you cut....I'm avoiding cutting and I'm wholeheartedly against dropbracketing....if I'm gonna end up hitting the point of having to DB it, I'll just SAS it instead.
so, the question becomes this then I suppose...why is it that if you do a TS and get the longer arms that you can run 35's that way? that would logically be worse since now the top of the inside of the fender isn't your contact point, the metal fender lip is...
I think the picture on why it doesn't change what fits without contact becomes clear when you draw a sketch....
The lift comes from the fact that you're adding longer suspension components on, so, you have more down travel, but no increase in up unless you drop bracket or you cut....I'm avoiding cutting and I'm wholeheartedly against dropbracketing....if I'm gonna end up hitting the point of having to DB it, I'll just SAS it instead.
so, the question becomes this then I suppose...why is it that if you do a TS and get the longer arms that you can run 35's that way? that would logically be worse since now the top of the inside of the fender isn't your contact point, the metal fender lip is...
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ryandavenport
Guest
The extra width gives more stability, along with better CV angles. It also produces more up travel and droop when paired with the right coilovers. You still have to have the body lift paired with the Titan swap to run 35s. You can also limit up travel with a bump stop. You can make the lower control arm bump stop contact the bump stop on the frame before the tire goes into the fender.
- Location
- Amarillo, TX
grr.....I really don't want body lift....raising the center of gravity bothers me....a lot....
jmnielsen
Need Bigger Tires
- Location
- Lincoln, NE
Cutting the fenders isn't too bad. Just take your time and use right tools and it shouldn't be a problem. BTW, I have the narrow 33s (255s) and ha to do the melt mod.
- Location
- Idaho!
I'm confused as to why you want to fit 35s on your X at all? Not trying to raz ya, just simply curious.
I have 285/75/16s on my X. Did not do melt mod and have not had many issues with it. I do have problems with the tires rubbing the inside frame on my rear tho. I'm guessing 255s would not do that as much, oh well. (I also have a 2" SL lift in the rear.)
I have 285/75/16s on my X. Did not do melt mod and have not had many issues with it. I do have problems with the tires rubbing the inside frame on my rear tho. I'm guessing 255s would not do that as much, oh well. (I also have a 2" SL lift in the rear.)
- Location
- Amarillo, TX
mel....35's = more ground clearance over rocks etc, and tires are the only thing that REALLY increases your ground clearance, since nothing other than tires changes how high your rear pumpkin sits off of the ground....
- Location
- Huntsville, AL
Don't quote me on this, but you could go Titan Swap if you're looking for that kind of thing... or SAS. Either way though, a little bit of cutting would be required.
- Location
- Amarillo, TX
TS would still require BL according to someone above...
if I was gonna SAS it, I'd be going to 35's at a bare minimum but, it's a DD so, there will be no SAS craziness.
the most overboard I'm considering going for the driveline is finding one of the D44-IFS housings, having custom front CV shafts made, slapping the rear diff with e-locker out of an OR/Pro-4X in it and then getting creative with the arms, that way I can guarantee that my front diff is every ounce as strong as my rear.
if I was gonna SAS it, I'd be going to 35's at a bare minimum but, it's a DD so, there will be no SAS craziness.
the most overboard I'm considering going for the driveline is finding one of the D44-IFS housings, having custom front CV shafts made, slapping the rear diff with e-locker out of an OR/Pro-4X in it and then getting creative with the arms, that way I can guarantee that my front diff is every ounce as strong as my rear.
SMH
Bought an X
- Location
- Camp Lejeuene, NC
It's also tire width. 315's are 2" wider than stock 265's, plus you have to run wheel spacers on X control arms to avoid frame rub. A SL doesn't reduce up travel, so the larger tires sticking out 2.5" farther than stock will hit the fenders. Plus if you need to turn with a front tire at full stuff, they will tear the crap out of your fender.
TS doesn't require a BL fyi, but you can make your own 1" BL for about $75. PRG Titan uppers, Titan lowers, extended axles/tie rods/brake lines will run you about $1500 for ~3.5" of lift with appropriate coilovers. Then you can run stock wheels and sans the wheel spacer, have a great ride and what you want offroad and be able to have 35's. Will have to do some fender trimming pretty much no matter what though
TS doesn't require a BL fyi, but you can make your own 1" BL for about $75. PRG Titan uppers, Titan lowers, extended axles/tie rods/brake lines will run you about $1500 for ~3.5" of lift with appropriate coilovers. Then you can run stock wheels and sans the wheel spacer, have a great ride and what you want offroad and be able to have 35's. Will have to do some fender trimming pretty much no matter what though
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- Location
- Amarillo, TX
hmm...do you know of someplace that has a good before and after pic of trimming for 35's?
SMH
Bought an X
- Location
- Camp Lejeuene, NC
nope
- Location
- Pearl, MS
A body lift is the only thing that is going to allow you to fit 35's. Anything less is going to tear up your fender wells at max up travel unless you do a lot of cutting to your fenders/plastic/body. I too was against a body lift for the same reasons when the mod bug bit me, It took me researching and fully understanding the mechanics of the BL vs. SL to realize that if I wanted 33's I was going to have to do the BL on my first gen. To fit larger tires you need to move the body away from the wheels otherwise they will make contact at full stuff.
- Location
- Amarillo, TX
oh I understand the mechanics of a body lift, and how it works, I'd rather chop body than lift the body, I've built enough scale rock crawler rigs to know full well what happens when you start getting too much weight up high, I'd rather have less flex than have the weight of the body elevated without everything else. I'm pretty set on it, a 1" might be something I'd consider, but, anything bigger won't happen, and again, if I can compensate by trimming and not having to body lift, I'll do that. I'd rather order a new pair of front fenders to cut, get painted, and install so that it looks factory than install a body lift...not so sure how I'd approach the rear....but, on the rear, the SL **DOES** move the flex point downward so, a 2" lift in the rear *should* be enough...but, I'll leave that answer to the 2nd gen guys that've put 35's on their 2nd gens...
SMH
Bought an X
- Location
- Camp Lejeuene, NC
Also remember that the negative effects caused by a BL are lessened by the wider stance of the TS/tires and the weight of the tires. 2" isn't that big of a deal but I also hate BL's. Getting bumpers to work with a 1" BL might be a PITA
- Location
- Amarillo, TX
bumpers shouldn't be that big of an issue, I'll just have RLC make me a longer mount plate that has an extra set of holes for 1" and 2" BL incase I ever get convinced that I absolutely have to have a BL....or, if I'm making the bumpers myself, I'll make them with the 1" on and go from there...
SMH
Bought an X
- Location
- Camp Lejeuene, NC
Sounds like you're set then
- Location
- Amarillo, TX
gotta figure out how much cutting I'll have to do though....I'm hoping that rook has before and after pics and maybe some measurements for what he chopped out....I know I'll have to add about an inch or two of cut obviously cause I think he's running 2" BL...
SMH
Bought an X
- Location
- Camp Lejeuene, NC
Dude it's such a case by case thing. You might need more on back or top then another X. Best bet is to stuff the tire and mark with a pencil where you need to trim, then do a little at time till it's right.
- Location
- Amarillo, TX
hmm....well damn. I've gotta wonder how much you could make selling primered pre-trimmed front fenders and a fender-liner kit....35 fit kit...it'd be a slick deal.
SMH
Bought an X
- Location
- Camp Lejeuene, NC
How many 2nd gens are running 35's? And how many of those would be willing to pay 600+ dollars for something that at this point in the build doesn't seem like that big of a deal. Where you are at right now it still has that new car feel and want it to stay that way, but when you start cutting into sheet metal you kinda just have to buck up and play with it, have some fun and make something original. Might it not be perfect a mirror image? No, probably not but who cares.
- Location
- Idaho!
^That's part of the adventure/fun of it! Cutting into sheet metal adds that extra level of BA to a rig. Do it hyde! And show before and after pics! Ooooo maybe you can do the measurements and mathematical stuff so that if anyone else wants to do it, the info will be available. 
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SMH
Bought an X
- Location
- Camp Lejeuene, NC
Hey that's an idea, do something without instructions but write the instructions as you go along!
- Location
- Amarillo, TX
hmm.....perhaps....I've gotta get some new fenders first....I was actually going to let my buddy that's a body guy do the cutting and re-folding the edge so it's rounded, and all of that stuff...I was just going to sketch the cut line on for him lol
- Location
- SW OK & formerly Eastern NM
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ryandavenport
Guest
It's a make your own body lift. You basically get 1 foot of 3" diameter poly cylinder. If you do a 2" body lift, you need 2 ft of poly cylinder. It runs about $30/ft.
- Location
- SW OK & formerly Eastern NM
Is it legit? And is there a how to?
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ryandavenport
Guest
I just recently read about it. So im not sure of the legitness of it. Rook said something about it on TNX. What I read on there is what I posted on here. That's about the extent of what I know. I personally will not do a body lift, so I've never been interested enough to research it.
Sent from my DROIDX
Sent from my DROIDX
- Location
- Amarillo, TX
I'm in the same boat, but, I do know you can piece your own together pretty cheaply...the pucks to do the 2" BL are supposedly WAY cheaper than what the kit costs, and you can get grade 8 bolts cheaper too...