PML lift

[ericcris10sen]

I'm not sure if this is where it belongs, but I'm having trouble with anyone doing my PML for me. Every mechanic I go to has been telling me that they WILL NOT touch an Xterra when doing a PML. They're saying that because they have to torque the torsion bar in the front, it'll cause a lot of problems. They say the bar will wear out and the ball joints will be problematic in not too long and he said that it'll mess up the steering so bad that it'll either be extremely hard to get it back to the way it was, or it'll be impossible to get right. I'm just wondering if this is even worth it. I've read through many xterra forums/threads on this and it seems there are those who don't have a problem, and those who do (especially when it comes to sagging in the rear). I bought the PML a while back and I haven't been able to find anyone in my area (xterra members or mechanics) that will do this WITH me.

My tires are a little oversized (I measured and it came out to be 29" or 30") and if I cut my wheel hard, it'll scrape what I'm guessing is the plastic part in front of the tires. Also, other than giving me a little more clearance, it looks great with even a tiny lift.

His suggestion is to call or go down to Phoenix (which is a 300 mile round trip) and find out from this one mechanic on how he does it, because he said there's a right way to do this. He said something about there being a key lock or something like that and it lifting the torsion bar instead of having it twisted, idk.

If I decide to not put this on (which I really want to), I'll just find a member on here who wants it and sell it to them for dirt cheap. Anyone have some major problems with their PML's? Is it really worth it, or is he just throwing the worst case scenarios at me?

 

[yellowx16]

cranking the torsion bars can be a problem on other vehicles, but with the xterra is doesn't really add any extra stress on the steering or suspension components. I have had mine in for over a year and have had 0 problems. your mechanics is referring to torsion keys, it's something they use in chevy trucks for example to lift the front, again not compatible with xterras. I say just do the pml yourself and save money. there are plenty of write ups regarding adjusting the torsion bars and installing the shackles in the rear. if you ask anyone who has done a pml I'm sure they would agree that it is worth it. I was hesitant to do it too for the same reasons you are, but you really shouldn't have any issues. As far as your tire size, your 29"/30" tires are stock size for a first gen. hope that helps!

 

[Xado89]

Crank them, you'll be alright. Most people here just save a 0.5" gap between the bump stop an control arm. Almost everyone here owning a first generation X has done this mod. One of the easiest and first mods to go after when you're starting out modding your truck. There's a thread somewhere on here with proper alignment specs too after performing a PML. If you show it to a shop, they shouldn't have a problem following it I would say...

 

[ericcris10sen]

Oh didn't know it was stock size lol seems to scrape against SOMETHING.

Yea I know there's a ton of DIY's PML out there, I'd rather just have someone there with me in case I have a question or need help with something. I'm mechanically challenged so sometimes something that will seem simple in the threads, will turn out to be something like a labyrinth in my head. But I'll see if I can understand it well enough to feel comfortable to do it on my own.

 

[Xado89]

Check out youtube. I know there's gotta be some videos of people going step by step showing you what to do and look for.

 

[ericcris10sen]

Crank them, you'll be alright. Most people here just save a 0.5" gap between the bump stop an control arm. Almost everyone here owning a first generation X has done this mod. One of the easiest and first mods to go after when you're starting out modding your truck. There's a thread somewhere on here with proper alignment specs too after performing a PML. If you show it to a shop, they shouldn't have a problem following it I would say...

Well, if I decide to take it to a shop, it's just FINDING a shop that'll do it.

Well the problem with YouTube is I don't have internet where I live (damn internet companies say I'm too far away, wtf) so I can't do that. I'll look through the DIY.

 

[ericcris10sen]

Okay so some good news, I found a mechanic (Flagstaff 4x4) that'll do my PML for me and they charge not very much which is great! And when I was talking to him, he knew EXACTLY what needs to be done and apparently he's done this quite a bit so I'm super happy about this! I found a website that has the shackle lift in great detail so if I decide to not do it with the mechanic, I'll try it myself, but like I said, they charge less than $100 and they know what they're doing so I'm happy with that!

 

[granitex]

If i can replace mine on the trail in Moab than you can do yours in the driveway at home. It is not as hard as you are making it out to be.

 

[NismoFire]

If i can replace mine on the trail in Moab than you can do yours in the driveway at home. It is not as hard as you are making it out to be.

^^^^^

Depending on how corroded the bolts are, you could be done in an hour.

You need...

For the Front:
Tape measure (for leveling purposes)
Breaker bar or impact
WD40 or PB Blaster
Jack stands
Floor jack

For the rear: Same thing, just add the factory scissor jack to the equation.


You can do this. Don't waste your money on a mechanic. When you see how easy it is, you'll be glad you did it yourself.

You'll need an alignment afterward, so keep that in mind as well.

 

[yellowx16]

^^^^^ Depending on how corroded the bolts are, you could be done in an hour. You need... For the Front: Tape measure (for leveling purposes) Breaker bar or impact WD40 or PB Blaster Jack stands Floor jack For the rear: Same thing, just add the factory scissor jack to the equation. You can do this. Don't waste your money on a mechanic. When you see how easy it is, you'll be glad you did it yourself. You'll need an alignment afterward, so keep that in mind as well.

this.

I did mine when I was 17, and with hardly any mechanical experience. It's really easy, took me about 3 hours total, but I had rusted bolts.

 

[Intender]

Most of the difficulty boils down to how rusted your adjusters are, whether you have to reindex (you shouldnt) and how flat the ground your working on is. with good flat ground and no rust you can knock it out quick. But considering where you live, I would imagine you have some rust. I did mine with out any pb blaster, and two box wrenches. some people will say you dont need to lift the front when cranking the adjusters, but its soooo much easier with the front off the ground. That way your not fighting the weight of the truck and any rust you might have, and it reduces the risk of stripping the adjusters. Now if for some reason you get to the point where your adjusters are burried in the frame and have to reindex, that adds another level of difficulty to it, but it is still doable.

 

[BKxterra718]

Spray those torsion bolt adjusters for a week with PB catalyst or something. I think the nuts on It are 19mm. You'll need 19 open end, 19mm socket, 1/2 drive breaker bar w flex head, 1/2 extension possibly, and a 19 mm gear wrench would be nice. U gotta loosen the top one and give the other one room to turn. Use an open end on the nuts on top while you use the breaker bar w a 19 socket on the bottom side. U gona have to prop the wrench against the chassis or wherever you could. Make sure you count how many full rotations you do so u can do the same on the other side. Some folks like to lift the driver side higher to compensate weight but for PML thats just crazy. This whole thing will have to be done again but more severely when you do a SL. And is easier if u would do a BL first, to save ur knuckles. I would suggest if u dont gotta do this dont. Unless this is as far as you wana go. Go to 4x4 parts.com and get some low profile bump stops and put those badboys in too. I would take some pics to show you but there 12" of snow over here. If you was closer to brooklyn i'd do it for a couple beers no problem


www.justinandersdenmark.com

 

[ericcris10sen]

Sigh, alright. I'll give it a try. I'm going to have to buy one of those huge floor jacks, the ones I have don't lift the vehicle high enough to take the tires off the ground, and the factory hand cracking jack bent and almost broke when I had to change one of the tires lol I have printed out the detailed instructions and I'm sure I'll be able to get it finished on the weekend.

 

[01XterraPhilly]

i did my PML in the fall with the help of XterraMike on CX and it took like 2 hrs to do total. Ive never done one and he's done a lot and he made it look easy. Some things that make the install easier is having longer shocks, bilsteins 5100 for 0-3" of lift, impact wrench, and stands/jacks. The longer shocks will allow your axle to drop further and will make the install hella easier. The impact wrench is obviously great for the ease of not having to use much muscle usage. The only issues that may arise is having to reindex. luckily i didnt have to reindex. there are DIYs on how to reindex if you run into that issue. Ill find the link for it on CX if its not on here. If your finding that you need more space you can also get 3/8" bump stops from energy suspension for aobut $10 through them or 4x4Parts. Its really not hard and I have faith you can do it!

 

[robcarync]

you can't go wrong with the how to:

http://xterranation.org/showthread.php?2812-How-To-PML-Fully-Explained!

If you have questions, post up...some of us are experts by now

Basically, the mechanic is an idiot

 

[ericcris10sen]

@01XterraPhilly I'm really considering buying new shocks! I've looked around and those are the ones everyone talks about. They're pretty inexpensive and I'm sure the ones I have aren't doing too well lol I'll look into the bump stops but I'm hoping I don't need 'em.

@robcarync Thanks, I was reading one that was very similar to the one you posted (might have been the same one). Thanks you guys.

 

[robcarync]

If you aren't mechanically inclined, spend some time each night just crawling under the car with a flash light. Try to locate the torsion bars, adjusters and nuts, the control arms, UPPER bump stop gap (not the lower) etc. Just being aware of how the systems work will make it a LOT easier to figure out how to modify that system.

So...PB Blast the nuts/bolts in the adjusters, go ahead and pre-measure your bump stop gaps so you know how much room you have to move. Just get acclimated to what you will be doing...kind of a "dry run" if you will. I did this when I was prepping to do a body lift...made sure I could find all 10 body mounts and bolts, knew where to find the power steering bracket, brake lines, etc. It made it MUCH easier to do the lift later since I had already scoped out the truck to know what I would be looking for.

 

[xterraminator]

Its very easy to do. The mechanic is protecting himself from any liability that might come with it, as he thinks. In the end its very safe, wont hurt the truck. Jack up the front, torque up the rods, lower it, make sure the ride is the same height on each side, if you need more height do it again. make sure you leave the 0.5" gap on the rubber spacer.
The PML will lift the front and make it stiffer, making the braking alot better. Gets rid of the nose dive. You will loose wheel flexibility on the downside.
I did mine and got almost 2" lift on the front. Did not do the wheel alignment, instead killed the cheap tires in front over a period of one year.
In the end it gives you more lift, but decreases your flex in the front for offroading. To get rid of this problem do a SAS.

You adding longer shackles on the back, that will be important. Also make sure to get rid of the rear sway bars, they limit your flex in the back.

 

[01XterraPhilly]

@01XterraPhilly I'm really considering buying new shocks! I've looked around and those are the ones everyone talks about. They're pretty inexpensive and I'm sure the ones I have aren't doing too well lol I'll look into the bump stops but I'm hoping I don't need 'em.

The bilsteins in my opinion are expensive as ell. About $300-350 for all 4. That's just me but they are totally worth it. The bump stops just give you more travel to play with which also allos you, if you wish, to crank the bars a little more. But the bilsteins definitely help in getting the shackles on because you need the extra droop to accommodate for the longer shackles.

 

[robcarync]

For the record, you do NOT decrease flex by adjusting the torsion bars. The control arms will always move between the upper and lower bump stops. Making it closer to the upper bump stop widens the gap at the lower bump stop. You have the same overall WHEEL TRAVEL, but you are trading UP travel for DOWN travel.

Cranking the torsion bars does NOT stiffen the springs. Torsion bars are bars of steel...When you twist the adjuster UP, you are twisting the lower control arm DOWN by the same angle. The bar is supporting the same amount of weight, so the overall angle the bar is twisted remains the same. If the front ride feels stiffer or more harsh, you are probably hitting the bump stop (guessing since you said you got 2 inches in the front...that is a lot for stock UCAs)

The PML will have NO impact on the stiffness of the front end.

 

[ericcris10sen]

Its very easy to do. The mechanic is protecting himself from any liability that might come with it, as he thinks. In the end its very safe, wont hurt the truck. Jack up the front, torque up the rods, lower it, make sure the ride is the same height on each side, if you need more height do it again. make sure you leave the 0.5" gap on the rubber spacer.
The PML will lift the front and make it stiffer, making the braking alot better. Gets rid of the nose dive. You will loose wheel flexibility on the downside.
I did mine and got almost 2" lift on the front. Did not do the wheel alignment, instead killed the cheap tires in front over a period of one year.
In the end it gives you more lift, but decreases your flex in the front for offroading. To get rid of this problem do a SAS.

You adding longer shackles on the back, that will be important. Also make sure to get rid of the rear sway bars, they limit your flex in the back.

I think I'll keep the sway bars. I've read that it IS great for off roading, but in the end, it will cause problems as it will make the vehicle more unstable (i.e. if a huge truck passes you or a nasty gust of wind hits you, you'll shake more than you would with the sway bar) and also I heard that taking that out will cause problems if you get in an accident or something and the insurance company finds out you took the sway bar away).

The bilsteins in my opinion are expensive as ell. About $300-350 for all 4. That's just me but they are totally worth it. The bump stops just give you more travel to play with which also allos you, if you wish, to crank the bars a little more. But the bilsteins definitely help in getting the shackles on because you need the extra droop to accommodate for the longer shackles.

lol really, you think so? I mean, I guess I wouldn't purchase them all at once, but I was thinking about buying two at a time, and putting them on, unless it'll make my X uneven (idk how it works, I've never worked with shocks or cared for them in the past), but if I need to put them on all at once, then I'll just buy them separately.

For the record, you do NOT decrease flex by adjusting the torsion bars. The control arms will always move between the upper and lower bump stops. Making it closer to the upper bump stop widens the gap at the lower bump stop. You have the same overall WHEEL TRAVEL, but you are trading UP travel for DOWN travel.

Cranking the torsion bars does NOT stiffen the springs. Torsion bars are bars of steel...When you twist the adjuster UP, you are twisting the lower control arm DOWN by the same angle. The bar is supporting the same amount of weight, so the overall angle the bar is twisted remains the same. If the front ride feels stiffer or more harsh, you are probably hitting the bump stop (guessing since you said you got 2 inches in the front...that is a lot for stock UCAs)

The PML will have NO impact on the stiffness of the front end.

Oh well that's great to know. Like Xterraminator said, he was probably saying it for liability and was throwing the worst case scenarios at me.

 

[robcarync]

Rear sway bar being removed causes no issues. Front sway bar helps more, since the Xterra is generally has more front biased body roll than the rear. You won't even be able to tell a difference removing the rear sway bar. Try it, and if you don't like it, put it back on.

How To:

http://xterranation.org/showthread.php?2814-How-To-Remove-Rear-Sway-Bar

 

[ericcris10sen]

Rear sway bar being removed causes no issues. Front sway bar helps more, since the Xterra is generally has more front biased body roll than the rear. You won't even be able to tell a difference removing the rear sway bar. Try it, and if you don't like it, put it back on.

How To:

http://xterranation.org/showthread.php?2814-How-To-Remove-Rear-Sway-Bar

Well, I'll have to think about that

 

[01XterraPhilly]

I can honestly say that the sway bar beig removed will make a huge difference in off roading. No one will disagree. It does more damage off-roading than anything. Kinda like a bull bar. Now if you're towing a boat or camper then keep it. If not then toss that ish and move on. You won't regret it ever

 

[ericcris10sen]

Well, I'm going to lift my X and then see how it rides, if I feel comfortable enough and want to take the sway bar off, then I'll disconnect it. I've read many forums of people saying to "KEEP IT ON!" and then people saying it's fine and it'll help with off roading. But I'll see whether or not I like it without it.

 

[Xado89]

Well, I'm going to lift my X and then see how it rides, if I feel comfortable enough and want to take the sway bar off, then I'll disconnect it. I've read many forums of people saying to "KEEP IT ON!" and then people saying it's fine and it'll help with off roading. But I'll see whether or not I like it without it.

I don't know if I read that right or not but the rear sway bar can actually cause damage offroading. Apparently the rears are kind of cheap and can snap, usually they end blowing into the shocks, damaging those. Unless you drive like Dale Earnhardt, you really won't notice the rear being gone. You will notice it gone when you go offroading as your rear will actually flex more, you may not be on three wheels as much =P

 

[ericcris10sen]

Well, I've been reading different opinions from different people throughout many forums, just like PML's. So I'm just making sure lol

 

[robcarync]

Bottom line...people that tell you to keep the rear sway bar on or you will roll over sideways....they DON'T KNOW what they are talking about. Sway bars in general...sure they are designed to reduce body roll by limiting how much you can flex. However the Xterra sway bar is a very AWFUL design...the links can swing and flex into your rear shocks, causing real damage. Many people just hear removing sway bar...and they thing "Oh NO!!!! You will roll and be unsafe!"

Most people don't know how hard it truly is to roll an SUV...even a lifted SUV with no sway bars. I don't care if you swerve to miss Bambi or not, a sway bar is not going to be the difference between staying on all 4 and rolling.

I removed my rear sway bar, and gave it a try. I specifically tried to notice the difference and I think I could tell immediately after trying it out...(hard to know if it was my mind playing tricks on me since I was consciously looking for it)....but by 2 days I couldn't tell a difference.

Besides...like I said...you can always put it back on with a few bolts.

 

[Muadeeb]

My X is my DD, drive it 60+ miles a day on highways. I'm also 2 years with no rear sway bar, driving at 75+mph through traffic and cannot tell that it is gone.

Toss it and scrap it. You'll never notice it gone.

Sent via wild ferrets on crack

 

[ericcris10sen]

Lol awesome then it'll be done.

 

[ericcris10sen]

Lifted my Xterra! With the help of one of my co-workers of course

Before

And After

 

[yellowx16]

looks great!!

 

[ericcris10sen]

Thank you yellow!

 

[robcarync]

awesome man!!!! That wasn't too tough, was it?!

 

[NismoFire]

See? Wasn't that hard.


Now go get an alignment.

 

[KChurch86]

Hey, you ditched the mud flaps and step rails too!

Way to go, looks great!

 

[ericcris10sen]

awesome man!!!! That wasn't too tough, was it?!

lol well I had some help but overall it wasn't that hard! Thanks!

See? Wasn't that hard.


Now go get an alignment.

Haha I already had the alignment. It isn't perfectly aligned like it was before, but it's much better

Hey, you ditched the mud flaps and step rails too!

Way to go, looks great!

Thanks a lot! I heard that the step rails can get destroyed if you go off roading and if it hits a rock, so I ditched them. And then omg the NOISE of my tires hitting the mud flags when I was with a couple xterra group members was SOOOO embarrassing LOL I HAD, HAD, HAD to ditch them! Thank you for the compliments!

 

[Cruecible]

While being somewhat on topic I'll ask a quick question... After doing a PML, do I need to give the alignment place the specs that I found in the How To post, or should they be able to do it properly without the exact numbers? I'm still a month out from doing mine, but was just curious.

 

[NismoFire]

While being somewhat on topic I'll ask a quick question... After doing a PML, do I need to give the alignment place the specs that I found in the How To post, or should they be able to do it properly without the exact numbers? I'm still a month out from doing mine, but was just curious.

I had mine done without submitting specs. No harm, no foul.

 

[robcarync]

The modified specs are basically VERY similar to the stock spec...the only real difference is the stock specs allow for a little extra camber, and the caster is usually higher. Lifting the front end reduces the total amount of caster you can obtain, but it is still good enough