- Location
- Morrison, CO
Dana 44 with a solid tie rod bar. Best set up for steering on an Xterra there is to date.
What?
What?
Steering Setups
- Thread starter xterror04
- Start date
- Location
- Rhode Island
/\ haha!
- Location
- Amarillo, TX
Cyclemut said:
false, dana 60 ifs front axle with solid tie rod shaft coming off of centrally located hydraulic ram.
- Location
- Morrison, CO
false, dana 60 ifs front axle with solid tie rod shaft coming off of centrally located hydraulic ram.
Except that I'm happy with the size of my penis. I also don't wheel a Crew Cab long bed dually K3500 Duramax with an Allison on 12" of lift running 40's either.
- Location
- Dickinson, TX
That is not what I was saying at all....heavy duty or not heavy duty was not what we were talking about and im not sure how you got confused about that part as we were talking about if it came with the ends or not and my kit did not and when I called them about it thinking they were missing I was informed then that I had to get my own ends.
If you look at the picture of the kit on their site you will only see 2 ends and those are the 2 that screw into the center link.
- Location
- Amarillo, TX
actually, it's got nothing to do with penis size....I prefer to stick to IFS instead of SAS....I like the stability that it has....
I've yet to find a *good* d44 IFS housing, and I know they make D60 IFS housings that're quite nice...KOH rig nice....I can't recall whose rig it was, but, I've seen pictures of it, and it was a NICE 2nd gen....pulled the stock diff out and dropped the D60 up in...all in all I think it only caused about 4" of lift, which meant you were perfect on 35's instead of a SAS swap that had 37's
solid bar side to side is asking to get bent on a rock
- Location
- East Coast
I run the Calmini kit on mine. I do not know the history of the TRE's as it was pulled off another X. I'm pleased with it.
CISO
CISO
- Location
- S.Subs of Chicago, IL.
OK obviously there has been a failure to communicate. I admit I don't know what constitutes a complete steering replacement. I'm trying to find out what is NOT listed that should be if the CALMINI rep said it was complete.
It's unfortunate how a simple lack of knowledge can be misinterpreted.
It's unfortunate how a simple lack of knowledge can be misinterpreted.
- Location
- Dickinson, TX
TKD: Just call Calmini, more than likely a guy named Justin will answer and ask him 1 question:
Does it come with inner and outer tie rod ends?
Now unless they have changed this or not I don't know but I did call back and complain about the fact they state "complete replacement kit" and suggested it be complete or they should change the wording.
The only thing missing in mine was the inner and outer ends for both sides and I highly doubt they changed that after my one little phone call complaining about it.
Does it come with inner and outer tie rod ends?
Now unless they have changed this or not I don't know but I did call back and complain about the fact they state "complete replacement kit" and suggested it be complete or they should change the wording.
The only thing missing in mine was the inner and outer ends for both sides and I highly doubt they changed that after my one little phone call complaining about it.
- Location
- Rhode Island
* Minus TRE's
Where on the page, Is that stupid little star!?
-Carmon San Diego melody playing in the background.
Where on the page, Is that stupid little star!?
-Carmon San Diego melody playing in the background.
ChiXterra
Wheeling
- Location
- Northern Illinois
actually, it's got nothing to do with penis size....I prefer to stick to IFS instead of SAS....I like the stability that it has....
I've yet to find a *good* d44 IFS housing, and I know they make D60 IFS housings that're quite nice...KOH rig nice....I can't recall whose rig it was, but, I've seen pictures of it, and it was a NICE 2nd gen....pulled the stock diff out and dropped the D60 up in...all in all I think it only caused about 4" of lift, which meant you were perfect on 35's instead of a SAS swap that had 37's
solid bar side to side is asking to get bent on a rock
IFS is kind of like having a goalie in the net when you're trying to have kids. I think the main reason that people don't do the SAS is because of cost. The steering setup is much beefier, that's for sure.
- Location
- Amarillo, TX
SAS steering setup is much beefier than the stock setup, that's not saying a lot though....the 2nd gen has a better steering setup than the 1st gen too so....no need to jump to a SAS just to strengthen your steering setup, it's a bad design on the 1st gen, and that doesn't immediately mean that the solution is to SAS the rig. If that's your preference that's cool, but, that doesn't mean it's the best.
as far as your remark on IFS, obviously not if there are KOH rigs switching to IFS, and if baja style trucks and buggies have nothing against IFS....it may not be the best for ROCK CRAWLING, but, it's perfectly fine for most every other form of offroading, especially if you take the time to build a decent IFS diff/shafts/etc.
as far as your remark on IFS, obviously not if there are KOH rigs switching to IFS, and if baja style trucks and buggies have nothing against IFS....it may not be the best for ROCK CRAWLING, but, it's perfectly fine for most every other form of offroading, especially if you take the time to build a decent IFS diff/shafts/etc.
ChiXterra
Wheeling
- Location
- Northern Illinois
There are indeed some great IFS designs/rigs. Unfortunately, I don't care for the 1st Gens design. Sure would be nice to not have t-bars.
There are more perks to an SAS besides steering, it's just one benefit. Downside is cost.
- Location
- Morrison, CO
Hyde, you're arguing just to argue. My comment was meant more as a joke than anything and you're taking it to a level that's not necessary.
Lighten up.
Lighten up.
- Location
- Amarillo, TX
I was just debating the point....but, ok...I'll drop it...I just get really tired of everyone bagging on IFS rigs just because they aren't SAS rigs...
- Location
- S.Subs of Chicago, IL.
Well it seems AC doesn't include inner or outter TRA's in it's "COMPLETE STEERING SYSTEM" for the Gen1 X. Something else has to be purchased and neither say that in the descriptions.
NMTerras
Suspension Lift
- Location
- New Mexico
Got mine in the mail today!
Update? What do you think of the total chaos setup you got? I beat the crap out of my steering in Moab this week and am going to have to beef up after I limp home...so how do you like it?
- Location
- New Mexico
The SLR is pretty solid as well. The welds are very nice on all of my SLR stuff and all of the dimensions/tolerances are tight. I'm not sure what they go for now days but I think that the SLR kit sells for several hundred dollars less than the AC/Total Chaos king kong kit. I'm stripping the cheap spray paint off of mine this weekend and taking them to the powder coater with my skid plates next week:
- Location
- New Mexico
My pic kinda makes the SLR kit seem smaller than it really is. I included a Total Chaos IAB in the SLR pic so you can use that as a common size reference to compare with the AC/TC pictures.
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- Location
- Rhode Island
They still selling the first gen SLR kit?
- Location
- New Mexico
I'm not sure. The company went out of business years ago but several months ago, the owner was still producing UCA's and steering kits on a made to order basis. Several folks over on CX placed orders with him last year.
- Location
- S.Subs of Chicago, IL.
Here's what SLR told me:
Re: SLR products
Tuesday, January 17, 2012 11:28 AM
Hello and thanks for the interest.
Steering is 650 shipped
And 3" upper stage 1-4 arms are 475 shipped.
Stage 5 2wd is 4500
Stage 5 4wd is 6000
Let me know a direction, I can always do custom stuff or work with ur budget and needs.
All products are built to order using only the finest manufacturing methods and materials.
I stand be all my stuff
Thanks
SL
909 285 xxxx direct cell.
- Location
- Rhode Island
That would be great if he's stil doing it to order.
I need to replace my steering gear due to a huge leak, ordered tre's and Tra's deciding if I want to just do it all in one shot.
I like the SLR setup, and think it would be a good adition to my build.
I need to replace my steering gear due to a huge leak, ordered tre's and Tra's deciding if I want to just do it all in one shot.
I like the SLR setup, and think it would be a good adition to my build.
- Location
- Washington
So what tie rods do you use with the SLR kit?
- Location
- Dickinson, TX
It looks like a good strg kit and all BUTTTT, what happens when you can't get a hold of this guy anymore since he already went out of business and you need a single part to repair your steering set up that you got from him?
- Location
- New Mexico
The SLR kit replaces everything except the tie rod ends. They do supply a beefed up pair of tie rod adjusters with the kit, I just forgot to include them in the pic.
- Location
- New Mexico
Yeah, availability of replacement parts is definitely an important consideration here. The SLR kit may not be the best choice for everyone.
A couple of years ago, I started comparing all of the aftermarket kits (past and present) and decided that the SLR kit seemed to be the toughest kit that doesn't use Heim joints. The only problem was that the company had been out of business for several years at that point and the people who were running the SLR kits loved them and didn't want to give them up. I knew that finding replacement parts for the kit would be difficult at best but the kits have a great reputation for durability and longevity. All of the bushings and spherical bearings are easily replaceable with off the shelf replacements.
Now that I have the kit, I feel much more confident in my decision. If any part of it does wear out or break, the components are fairly simple and I should be able to repair it or reverse engineer the part and have a replacement made locally.
I also should add that I only use the X for wheeling trips so I doubt that I will put more than 25,000 miles on it over the next ten years. I may have gone with a different kit if it was for a daily driver.
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NMTerras
Suspension Lift
- Location
- New Mexico
So all things being equal, the additional cost for the total chaos steering is for the heim instead of traditional tie rod set up. What are the pros and cons of the heim joints?
- Location
- New Mexico
Ahh... the great Heim debate.
I've never done the research to verify this, but there are a lot of folks out there who insist that they are illegal for use in steering systems in some states. Some of the sources of this info claim to be state vehicle inspection personnel while others are writers for the big 4 wheeler magazines. I'm not sure if I would make a decision based on what I've read about this but it does make me want to investigate it further. I have also seen some manufacturers stating that Heims are not DOT approved for steering applications but I don't really know if that affects anything that I care about.
As far as performance goes, as long as they are sized appropriately and are high quality, they seem to be the stronger choice. They do tend to wear out more quickly than standard TRE's since the bearing surfaces are exposed to sand and water. That may be more of an issue for those of us who live in the giant sand box called the southwest. There are protective boots that you can buy for use on Heims but I don't know much about them. A lot of the desert buggy guys have been using Heims in their steering systems for years and it seems to be a solid choice for their applications.
I decided to avoid using Heims for now because I will still be driving on the highways quite a bit and I would like to be sure that it really is legal to use them for steering linkage. I also figured that tie rod ends are relatively inexpensive and if I find that the they are wearing out or breaking prematurely, I can probably figure out a way to upgrade them to something stronger. Any upgrade to the TRE's will almost certainly be cheaper than replacing a set of $300-$500 Heim joints.
I've never done the research to verify this, but there are a lot of folks out there who insist that they are illegal for use in steering systems in some states. Some of the sources of this info claim to be state vehicle inspection personnel while others are writers for the big 4 wheeler magazines. I'm not sure if I would make a decision based on what I've read about this but it does make me want to investigate it further. I have also seen some manufacturers stating that Heims are not DOT approved for steering applications but I don't really know if that affects anything that I care about.
As far as performance goes, as long as they are sized appropriately and are high quality, they seem to be the stronger choice. They do tend to wear out more quickly than standard TRE's since the bearing surfaces are exposed to sand and water. That may be more of an issue for those of us who live in the giant sand box called the southwest. There are protective boots that you can buy for use on Heims but I don't know much about them. A lot of the desert buggy guys have been using Heims in their steering systems for years and it seems to be a solid choice for their applications.
I decided to avoid using Heims for now because I will still be driving on the highways quite a bit and I would like to be sure that it really is legal to use them for steering linkage. I also figured that tie rod ends are relatively inexpensive and if I find that the they are wearing out or breaking prematurely, I can probably figure out a way to upgrade them to something stronger. Any upgrade to the TRE's will almost certainly be cheaper than replacing a set of $300-$500 Heim joints.
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NMTerras
Suspension Lift
- Location
- New Mexico
They're legal in our state, but what isnt... Time to put my thinking cap on
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Sent from my brain using technology
- Location
- New Mexico
Now coming from you, I'll consider that reliable information. How did you find out?
NMTerras
Suspension Lift
- Location
- New Mexico
Since we dont have inspections its a safe assumption. Lights, turn signals, a license plate, insurance; you're good to go!
Im torn about what to do. My hd tras and new tres probably would do it, with a new centerlink and bushings. But if i can make it tighter and stronger im willing to spend a little more
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Im torn about what to do. My hd tras and new tres probably would do it, with a new centerlink and bushings. But if i can make it tighter and stronger im willing to spend a little more
Sent from my brain using technology
- Location
- New Mexico
It looks like it could be pretty easy to use Heims with the SLR kit as well. Now you have me re-thinking my plans.
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NMTerras
Suspension Lift
- Location
- New Mexico
So what about heim joints would prompt making them illegal?
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Sent from my brain using technology
- Location
- New Mexico
That's a good question. As I wrote earlier, I'm not convinced that they are illegal but there sure are a lot of people who are convinced. Some of them claim to either have been denied inspection stickers or are employed as vehicle inspectors themselves. I still want to understand what the DOT approved thing means. It may be some technicality that I don't care about.
If they are legal out here I may give them a shot. The only concern left would be longevity and I know that is a real concern. Maybe a little extra diligence keeping them clean will be enough to make those puppies last.
If they are legal out here I may give them a shot. The only concern left would be longevity and I know that is a real concern. Maybe a little extra diligence keeping them clean will be enough to make those puppies last.
- Location
- Greenville SC
I see heims used all the time in sports cars for aftermarket TRE's (and control arm joints), good for lowered cars with more angle on them, or to correct bumpsteer with spacers. I always hear this not DOT legal bs, but I dont exactly see DOT numbers stamped on regular balljoints and TRE's either (like you do with headlights and other lenses). And guess what, if you get a centerlink from grassroots 4x4 (or any of the similar style centerlinks) its got spherical bearings instead of balljoints, and spherical bearings are just heims without the threaded body.
I wouldn't be concerned with the strength of a good quality heim, nor the durability if you get a good teflon or kevlar lined one with some seals-it boots on it. My main concern would be the tapered shank, its going to be taking all the force, and i've seen the cheap ones for 240's (like megan racing, what a joke) break in half, but if thats a high quality piece then i'd have no worries.
I wouldn't be concerned with the strength of a good quality heim, nor the durability if you get a good teflon or kevlar lined one with some seals-it boots on it. My main concern would be the tapered shank, its going to be taking all the force, and i've seen the cheap ones for 240's (like megan racing, what a joke) break in half, but if thats a high quality piece then i'd have no worries.
NMTerras
Suspension Lift
- Location
- New Mexico
Im 99 percent certain there is no legal issue with them here. Ill verify at the office tuesday. DOT has to do with commercial vehicles in terms of inspections. There are no inspections for passenger vehicles here other than emissions. I believe the DOT inspections on commercial rigs are pursuant to the federal motor carrier safety act. Doesnt apply to us. Mod away!
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Sent from my brain using technology
- Location
- New Mexico
Cool. That's exactly what I meant when I wrote that you are a reliable source for this, I know next to nothing about law. From an engineering standpoint I can say that generally speaking, the Heim joint is a much stronger design.
- Location
- machesney park IL
The problems with a heim over a tierod is. Heims aren't of a captured design. That is if the heim pivot ball gets sloppy or the housing cracks game over the joint could slip right off over the securement bolt. However, this can be fixed with the use of the special beveled washers they sell but complicates the matter as space becomes a concern and taller then stock tierods could screw up the geometry of the steering. Then you have the issues with tapers. Tapers hold the tierods rock solid in place, stress on the securment nut is minimized which prevents the nuts from wiggling loose flexing stressing whatever. They sell taper collets which go over standard hardware to allow fitment of heims without modification to the knuckles and centerlink. However, the issue is with as small as our tapers are the bolt has to be really small to fit through the centerlink thereby I don't find it of suitable strength. You can just say screw the tapered design get your drill and drill all your parts. But, then you can never go back to stock say you really don't care for heim steering. As others have said they wear faster, are unsealed and I'll say they are not cheap. Face it as well if your on a cross country trip and a joint gives. A stock replacement part is going to be much easier to locate. So all said and done... a set of lifetime replacement tierods at the local autoparts store should be a one time purchase with muliple free exchanges. Keep a spare set on hand, if you have issues spin them off spin them on, exchange. I keep a set in my garage, keep track of when the warranty will expire, return them then re buy them to renew the warranty just like my other spare ball joints, etc.
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Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk 2
NMTerras
Suspension Lift
- Location
- New Mexico
Alright well let's open this up a little bit and get back on the original track of this thread - for me, I'm looking for the strongest possible offroad setup without going SAS. I understand the tre/tra/tre setup is longer lasting and road friendly, but I might be willing to trade off longevity for tightness and strength when I'm off-roading, and that's why I'm considering the total chos setup with the heims.
Suggestions for an alternative?
Suggestions for an alternative?