Total chaos long travel suspension lift

[NMTerras]

Anyone have any experience with this setup?

http://www.chaosfab.com/91440.html

I really like the idea of eliminating the torsion bars and stock ball joints, the gusseted lower control arms also are something I'd end up doing anyway.

I decided I don't want to SAS my rig (in the interests of keeping it functional as a long-distance fishing expedition vehicle as well as a wheeler) and this looks like it might be a good complement to my TC steering to make the steering and suspension relatively bulletproof and offroad capable...

I know it's pricey, but I think it's my best option ... Thoughts?

 

[ChiXterra]

Anyone have any experience with this setup?

http://www.chaosfab.com/91440.html

I really like the idea of eliminating the torsion bars and stock ball joints, the gusseted lower control arms also are something I'd end up doing anyway.

I decided I don't want to SAS my rig (in the interests of keeping it functional as a long-distance fishing expedition vehicle as well as a wheeler) and this looks like it might be a good complement to my TC steering to make the steering and suspension relatively bulletproof and offroad capable...

I know it's pricey, but I think it's my best option ... Thoughts?

On the SAS... You don't have to go huge on the SAS, you can stay with a smaller lift, and 33's. I just have a passionate dislike for the IFS system on the first gen X's.

I didn't see the price on the page, but what caught my eye were the items still needed: Fiberglass fenders (fiberglass isn't super strong, and I hate the look of those fenders, TC extended axles (I can only imagine the $$$$), shocks (coilovers are expensive in the first place), and the upper shock mounts (what and where do they get mounted to?). You're probably half-way through an SAS between the kit and the extras. And you eliminate the centerlink (although you have the TC system), and replace it with a stronger drag link and pandhard/track bar system. You can get the wide stance, and you will have a solid axle.

Sorry, I don't mean to be a negative nancy.

 

[Silver dude]

I to have considered it as its more expedition worthy then a high lifted sas rig.

Goods:
Rids t bars
2" wider per side.
Eliminates weak ball joints
Eliminates weak lower arms.
Improves handling and performance

Bad:
HIGH cost: at the price you could trade your X in for a 2nd gen. Which would net, front coilover suspension and way more engine, better interior and cargo capacity.

Most that have done it, do it then later complain that the truck doesn't have enough engine.

Exclusive parts and are hard to find. When driving cross country.

No swaybar up front + or - really guys I've talked to say it handles like a drift car. More stable with the width.

They say it requires fiberglass fenders to allow proper tire travel. I'd cut my steel ones but might look silly.

Still vintage leaf spring suspension in the rear which wouldn't keep up.

Still ifs so I'm unsure if it would be the tough upgrade I'm looking for or if it would merely improve performance not so much durability and distance between rebuilds.

High cost... did I mention its expensive!


The way I think.. would be super cool but once I have it not real sure if I would look back on it as something I regret the purchase of do to high cost, relatively small gains.

 

[NMTerras]

On the SAS... You don't have to go huge on the SAS, you can stay with a smaller lift, and 33's. I just have a passionate dislike for the IFS system on the first gen X's.

I didn't see the price on the page, but what caught my eye were the items still needed: Fiberglass fenders (fiberglass isn't super strong, and I hate the look of those fenders, TC extended axles (I can only imagine the $$$$), shocks (coilovers are expensive in the first place), and the upper shock mounts (what and where do they get mounted to?). You're probably half-way through an SAS between the kit and the extras. And you eliminate the centerlink (although you have the TC system), and replace it with a stronger drag link and pandhard/track bar system. You can get the wide stance, and you will have a solid axle.

Sorry, I don't mean to be a negative nancy.

Lol no prob I appreciate the feedback. The Fiberglas fenders won't happen. I'll continue to cut and shape my metal fenders. The cv axles are pricey it's true, as are coil overs. But in terms of versatility I think the ifs is substantially superior to SAS, and elimination of the torsion bars and ball joints (as well as already having eliminated the tie rods) eliminates the gen 1 ifs deficiencies. Either way (SAS or long travel) is expensive, no way around it.

 

[NMTerras]

I to have considered it as its more expedition worthy then a high lifted sas rig.

Goods:
Rids t bars
2" wider per side.
Eliminates weak ball joints
Eliminates weak lower arms.
Improves handling and performance

Bad:
HIGH cost: at the price you could trade your X in for a 2nd gen. Which would net, front coilover suspension and way more engine, better interior and cargo capacity.

Most that have done it, do it then later complain that the truck doesn't have enough engine.

Exclusive parts and are hard to find. When driving cross country.

No swaybar up front + or - really guys I've talked to say it handles like a drift car. More stable with the width.

They say it requires fiberglass fenders to allow proper tire travel. I'd cut my steel ones but might look silly.

Still vintage leaf spring suspension in the rear which wouldn't keep up.

Still ifs so I'm unsure if it would be the tough upgrade I'm looking for or if it would merely improve performance not so much durability and distance between rebuilds.

High cost... did I mention its expensive!


The way I think.. would be super cool but once I have it not real sure if I would look back on it as something I regret the purchase of do to high cost, relatively small gains.

Figure about 4 grand all told. The kit itself is 2.5k. Another 800 for hoops and the cv shafts. Plus shocks.
As far as trading in for a second gen, two problems: 1) I'm too deep into the gen 1 to get out of it, and 2) I already have a gen2...

Basically, the justification for going this big on the gen 1 is to just build it out all the way...I'm never getting rid of it

 

[Xtacular]

You gonna do what you gonna do, post lots of pictures!! Also of your steering...

 

[NMTerras]

You gonna do what you gonna do, post lots of pictures!! Also of your steering...

See my build thread for steering pics!

 

[Silver dude]

Figure about 4 grand all told. The kit itself is 2.5k. Another 800 for hoops and the cv shafts. Plus shocks.
As far as trading in for a second gen, two problems: 1) I'm too deep into the gen 1 to get out of it, and 2) I already have a gen2...

Basically, the justification for going this big on the gen 1 is to just build it out all the way...I'm never getting rid of it

Yeah in the same boat myself. My stock setup is maxed. I have hit the ceiling on all the mods. Only thing left is to replace the entire front end. Same here too will probably never sell because I will never get any money back. Worth more as a usable platform.

Figure $4k to be about right. I'd imagine you can source parts cheaper then they are offering. Get a universal hoop set for $100 as fab will be required anyways. I've always thought of ordering the hoop kit duplicating the parts then put them back in the box and return them... profit. Get some custom axle shafts at a possible lower price. If you use the rancho coil overs you might only be out less then $200 per side.

Of course the other option is the SLR stage 5 which uses a drop billet crossmember and among other bonuses. 6" of lift.

But I feel more comfortable with the TC kit.
Ben

 

[ChiXterra]

Lol no prob I appreciate the feedback. The Fiberglas fenders won't happen. I'll continue to cut and shape my metal fenders. The cv axles are pricey it's true, as are coil overs. But in terms of versatility I think the ifs is substantially superior to SAS, and elimination of the torsion bars and ball joints (as well as already having eliminated the tie rods) eliminates the gen 1 ifs deficiencies. Either way (SAS or long travel) is expensive, no way around it.

I am not sure if IFS is superior (my opinion). If you did do it, your vehicle would not become a trailer rig. It just becomes more capable off road, and sturdier. I am doing and SAS, and trust me, my X won't be stuck on the trailer. SAS is expensive, but you're almost there with the TC kit. Mine may come out to $5000 after I am done, maybe.

 

[granitex]

add another K+for a ARB front locker, all that much work without a selectable locker would be a waste of money.

 

[NMTerras]

add another K+for a ARB front locker, all that much work without a selectable locker would be a waste of money.

Good point and yes, that's in the works regardless

 

[NMTerras]

I am not sure if IFS is superior (my opinion). If you did do it, your vehicle would not become a trailer rig. It just becomes more capable off road, and sturdier. I am doing and SAS, and trust me, my X won't be stuck on the trailer. SAS is expensive, but you're almost there with the TC kit. Mine may come out to $5000 after I am done, maybe.

I appreciate the input. Obviously we have different opinions about ifs v. SAS. IMO ifs is more versatile and better at higher speeds. There are ifs systems out there extremely offroad capable. On the highway, there's no comparison.

 

[Silver dude]

I appreciate the input. Obviously we have different opinions about ifs v. SAS. IMO ifs is more versatile and better at higher speeds. There are ifs systems out there extremely offroad capable. On the highway, there's no comparison.

Yeah I agree completely my version of vehicle use tends to involve public roads and trails more then rubicon boulder paths. I spend more time on the freeway then I do actually wheeling. Even when I wheel its a 4hour freeway trip to get there. My sport is ripping through sandy washes or tripping through gravel or dirt roads in the back country. Camping and the adventure out of the vehicle. Despite SAS being the solution. Riding all day on 1970's suspension design isn't what interests me. As I quite literally ride all day on rough roads or drive it daily around town. The instability of a vehicle lifted to sas specs scares me when ripping 80mph down the highway. I guess I've seen to many totaled rides from driving around town on the forums the past few years. The independent front with its digestive bump handling, smooth ride and snappy handling interests me more and provides greater benefit for my vehicle usage. When the suspension travel lets me down I flip the lockers and walk through. I don't need to push the limits. My rig goes everywhere I need it to go want it to go and then some.


But, likewise sas is the answer to the extreme. You'll never hit a ceiling on what the vehicle is capable of. Its also possible to build it better to last longer with parts that are incredibly easy to source at any small town in the country. Built exactly how you need it to perform and want it to look.

I debate this at least 2-3 times a month sas or tc kit? Every month I find myself coming up with a different answer.

I have videos from the total chao's xterra ripping through a high speed section then tearing through a rough boulder path. I'll try to locate them when I get home.


Ben

 

[NMTerras]

Ooooh yeah I'd like to see those!

 

[NMTerras]

And higher speed capabilities on dirt roads is a definite plus for me

 

[ChiXterra]

Yeah I agree completely my version of vehicle use tends to involve public roads and trails more then rubicon boulder paths. I spend more time on the freeway then I do actually wheeling. Even when I wheel its a 4hour freeway trip to get there. My sport is ripping through sandy washes or tripping through gravel or dirt roads in the back country. Camping and the adventure out of the vehicle. Despite SAS being the solution. Riding all day on 1970's suspension design isn't what interests me. As I quite literally ride all day on rough roads or drive it daily around town. The instability of a vehicle lifted to sas specs scares me when ripping 80mph down the highway. I guess I've seen to many totaled rides from driving around town on the forums the past few years. The independent front with its digestive bump handling, smooth ride and snappy handling interests me more and provides greater benefit for my vehicle usage. When the suspension travel lets me down I flip the lockers and walk through. I don't need to push the limits. My rig goes everywhere I need it to go want it to go and then some.


But, likewise sas is the answer to the extreme. You'll never hit a ceiling on what the vehicle is capable of. Its also possible to build it better to last longer with parts that are incredibly easy to source at any small town in the country. Built exactly how you need it to perform and want it to look.

I debate this at least 2-3 times a month sas or tc kit? Every month I find myself coming up with a different answer.

I have videos from the total chao's xterra ripping through a high speed section then tearing through a rough boulder path. I'll try to locate them when I get home.


Ben

80mph... jeez, I hardly ever reach 80mph.

It may be a 1970's axle, but it certainly isn't a 1970's suspension. There is less give, so the ride may be a little more truck like (which is fine in my opinion), but isn't as bad as it may sound. Generally, I'd say a lot of issues with lifted vehicles is related to people taking shortcuts, or trying to make it cheaper. Or people just driving like idiots. Its certainly all related to what you want from your rig. I, myself, don't want to be replacing IFS parts, and I don't want to be limited to a $1000 locker for the front. High speed trail stuff is different, and certainly where a quality IFS system is superior.

There are some great IFS systems out there, and I wish I could say the first gen Xterra had one. I just figured for the cost that you would put into the TC system, that you could have an almost complete SAS system.

Buy one though, I'd like to see some reviews of it.

 

[NMTerras]

Yeah I think you're right cost might be roughly equal, so I might as well blaze a trail...we'll see. I might be able to save a little money like Ben said by fabbing the shock hoops and going with the rancho coil overs. I'm just as likely to be driving fast on 40 miles of remote dirt road as I am to be crawling, so all things being equal, what the heck ...

 

[ChiXterra]

Yeah I think you're right cost might be roughly equal, so I might as well blaze a trail...we'll see. I might be able to save a little money like Ben said by fabbing the shock hoops and going with the rancho coil overs. I'm just as likely to be driving fast on 40 miles of remote dirt road as I am to be crawling, so all things being equal, what the heck ...

Which Ranchos are you talking about? The 2.0 Fox Coilovers are the cheapest I have found.

 

[xterror04]

Ive always been interested in this kit, I agree with both sides theres a plus to either form of suspension, But I do have to agree that I think IFS may be a bit better for everyday commuting, and road manners. I have wheeled with many big rigs, And I have just as much fun running on 33's as the guy does behing or in front of me on 37's, THey both have there advantages.

Nonetheless, DO IT! lol then take it off some sweet jumps!!!!!!!!!!

 

[NMTerras]

Which Ranchos are you talking about? The 2.0 Fox Coilovers are the cheapest I have found.

The fox 2.5s are what this mod needs. Best I can tell slightly more than the rancho Rs9000xls...

Ive always been interested in this kit, I agree with both sides theres a plus to either form of suspension, But I do have to agree that I think IFS may be a bit better for everyday commuting, and road manners. I have wheeled with many big rigs, And I have just as much fun running on 33's as the guy does behing or in front of me on 37's, THey both have there advantages.

Nonetheless, DO IT! lol then take it off some sweet jumps!!!!!!!!!!

Last time I jumped my x my lips hurt REAL BAD!

 

[ChiXterra]

The fox 2.5s are what this mod needs. Best I can tell slightly more than the rancho Rs9000xls...



Last time I jumped my x my lips hurt REAL BAD!

2.5's... ouch on the wallet. Alpine Spirit brought up the Ranch RS9000x, which is the 9-way adjustable shock with coils. Too bad I can't find them anywhere. If you know of a place that sells them, let me know.

 

[NMTerras]

2.5's... ouch on the wallet. Alpine Spirit brought up the Ranch RS9000x, which is the 9-way adjustable shock with coils. Too bad I can't find them anywhere. If you know of a place that sells them, let me know.

Yeah, ouch, but what the hell...go big...

 

[Kuzmovka]

I am kinda looking at this too. I want my rig to be different from the norm with the 3" kit and such. Honestly though the TC kit is way overpriced considering what it is. I mean really 2.5k for upper and lower control arms that are 2" longer? anyways, a more prerunnery side to the Xterra world would be nice. also Terra with the way your bumper setup is, the long travel would look sick as all get out. however, with this kit you absolutely must have grabber red letters.

Buy this and reveiw it so I have an excuse to drop gobs of money for no reason

 

[AZhiAZiAM]

if you've never been in a long travel truck i'd recommend you doing that before you drop the 2.5k on this kit. also think about your rear and what your going to do with your truck. if you want it just for looks ya it will look different and good on your truck how you have it setup, but if you plan to use the long travel kit be prepared to do some rear work. i can speak first hand that TC makes good products i've driven trucks with there 5.5 kits and other kits like a step mother beating there child and they hold up amazingly. I highly doubt sean is looking at this anymore since i'm almost 100% sure he is sasing terra.

 

[AZhiAZiAM]

I am kinda looking at this too. I want my rig to be different from the norm with the 3" kit and such. Honestly though the TC kit is way overpriced considering what it is. I mean really 2.5k for upper and lower control arms that are 2" longer? anyways, a more prerunnery side to the Xterra world would be nice. also Terra with the way your bumper setup is, the long travel would look sick as all get out. however, with this kit you absolutely must have grabber red letters.

Buy this and reveiw it so I have an excuse to drop gobs of money for no reason

and btw that kit isn't 2.5 really, you still need shock hoops, lower and upper, coil overs, and a couple other smaller things. even the cheap and decent coils like the ranchos which if your dropping this much money on a kit why not spend the money on good shocks are still around 800+. just some food for thought. if your really interested in it, i'd look at race-dezert, dezert rangers and a couple other forums for used kits and coils. you can rebuild the resses and have a brand new shock after painting might save you a couple bills.

 

[Roadwarrior]

Well Sean doesn't know if he is SAS'ing yet.. but IF he does.. he would be selling the front suspension, so maybe you could snag his setup. If he doesn't he is going to sell Terra, so there could still be a part out. I doubt if he sells that he will part out but you never know.

 

[NMTerras]

yeah, the long travel kit is more like 4-5k when you're all said and done, you also have to replace the fenders with fiberglass...

I have been VERY happy with the king kong steering since I put it in though...

 

[Silver dude]

I've talked to a few frontier guys that had the kit installed. The consensus was despite having the greatest suspension front suspension the rear leaf springs couldn't keep up. The ones that then 4 linked the rear then said it was a waste as the truck doesn't have enough horsepower to get real use from the suspension. I thoroughly agree. If I upgraded the suspension then I would want more power. By the time you put the money on the table it makes way more logic to buy a new vehicle that has better suspension/engine.

Ben

 

[NMTerras]

^^^to avoid confusion, I do not have the long travel kit, just the king kong steering (beefy centerlink, pitman arm, IAB, heim joints)

 

[Kuzmovka]

I know that the swap is more that 2.5k but I was more mentioning the control arms as a slightly unreasonable price considering what they are. It's kind of like how Shrockworks charges such high prices and really they are just another bumper manufacturer, they are awesome yes, but overpriced because of pedigree. anyways, yea the coilovers would be astro dollars and the hoops could be made for like $50, if you buy tabs to have them welded on, less if you have plate sitting around and a plasma cutter or access to one. 350 for the fenders, or 900 for a 1piece from a frontier, and a headlight swap... uh yes!? other than that you're looking at $600 for the axles which frankly arent necessary for the kit to be installed, youll just be a 2wd until you pony up 600.

One more thing, who would actually be able to use this to it's full potential? its just like an SAS, the motor in this truck came underpowered to begin with, we know going into it that the powerplant is crap. i mean its a 3.3 litre that produces less than 200HP, in a 2.5 ton truck. think again Nissan. that being said, how many people can really afford to build a race truck? being able to bounce down a dirt road at 80 or 90 is cool, but that's like the upper reaches of our speedo, I know mine is electronically limited to 100, and it shuts down the fuel after that. besides, at 90 in the dirt you damn well better have a cage and a couple other safety devices.

 

[CaptainMorgan_SOS]

I've talked to a few frontier guys that had the kit installed. The consensus was despite having the greatest suspension front suspension the rear leaf springs couldn't keep up. The ones that then 4 linked the rear then said it was a waste as the truck doesn't have enough horsepower to get real use from the suspension. I thoroughly agree. If I upgraded the suspension then I would want more power. By the time you put the money on the table it makes way more logic to buy a new vehicle that has better suspension/engine.

Ben

LS1 Swap. Problem solved. :kewl:

 

[AZhiAZiAM]

I've talked to a few frontier guys that had the kit installed. The consensus was despite having the greatest suspension front suspension the rear leaf springs couldn't keep up. The ones that then 4 linked the rear then said it was a waste as the truck doesn't have enough horsepower to get real use from the suspension. I thoroughly agree. If I upgraded the suspension then I would want more power. By the time you put the money on the table it makes way more logic to buy a new vehicle that has better suspension/engine.

Ben

This is exactly why I'm doing my current build lol

 

[CaptainMorgan_SOS]

Kinda off topic, but man, I looked at that long travel page on the Total Chaos site and the thing that has peaked my interest on there the most for the moment is that skid plate/pushbar that they have on both the X and the Fronty? Do they make these and sell them??

http://www.chaosfab.com/kitpage01.php?id=91440

 

[Kuzmovka]

They don't sell them as far as I know, call them up and see what's what

 

[NMTerras]

^^^^Pretty easy to make...

$90 piece of aluminum, bent, drilled and hole-sawed

 

[CaptainMorgan_SOS]

For that I'd need a welder, pipe bender, chop saw, etc. I'd love to though! I have soooo many ideas! Maybe when I get to NM I'll go ahead and invest in one and doo all the projects I have in my head.

/threadjack

 

[knightrider]

I looked long and hard at this kit and the work involved. Power and modern coil over suspension were the reasons for me to sell my 01 X and pick up a 2012 pro4x. No regrets

Not sent with the stupid auto guide app

 

[NMTerras]

For that I'd need a welder, pipe bender, chop saw, etc. I'd love to though! I have soooo many ideas! Maybe when I get to NM I'll go ahead and invest in one and doo all the projects I have in my head.

/threadjack

I had the piece of aluminum cut to size by the metal supermarket where I bought it. Jimmy rigged a press bender to bend the plate. other than that, just drilled holes and attached, made air holes with hole saw.